350 magnum
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NAP,
I don't have one of these, but have had the opportunity to fire a Custom Shop Model 7 in the .350 Mag. The round has plenty of power. The shorter barrel will bleed off some of your velocity, but it will still have plenty power. This would be in the area as a 35 Whelen if you are familiar with that cartridge. The one downside to this cartridge/rifle combo is the recoil in the very light rifle. The one I fired was a synthetic stocked version that, if memory serves, weighed about 6 1/2 lbs with a compact scope, sling, and no ammo. It was capable of shooting into under an inch, but bench shooting was no fun.
I don't have one of these, but have had the opportunity to fire a Custom Shop Model 7 in the .350 Mag. The round has plenty of power. The shorter barrel will bleed off some of your velocity, but it will still have plenty power. This would be in the area as a 35 Whelen if you are familiar with that cartridge. The one downside to this cartridge/rifle combo is the recoil in the very light rifle. The one I fired was a synthetic stocked version that, if memory serves, weighed about 6 1/2 lbs with a compact scope, sling, and no ammo. It was capable of shooting into under an inch, but bench shooting was no fun.
350Rem mag
I had two different 350Rem mags.1 in Rem M660 and one in a Rem M600.The 350Rem Mag is a fine round.My only problem is i'm a lever action man.So i sold them and bought a Win M88 in 358win and Win M71 in 348win.Of course I had to put about $2000.00 in boot to get the two levers.Really the 350rem Mag can do nothing that the 348win or 358win can't do when they are souped up with handloads.In fact when they get to 250gr they have both caught the 350Rem Mag.Here I'll show you.
350Rem Mag 200gr 2710fps-3261fpe,Factory
358Win 200gr 2700fps-3236fps,conley
348Win 200gr 2560fps-2909fpe,conley
350Rem Mag 220gr 2650fps-3431fpe,Speer
358Win 225gr 2550fps-3248fpe,Conley
348Win 220gr 2475fps-2979fpe,Conley
350Rem 250gr 2350fps-3066fpe,Nosler
358Win 250gr 2425fps-3250fpe,Conley
348Win 250gr 2350fps-3060fpe,Factory
350Rem 300gr 2300fps-3525fpe.Barnes
358Win 300gr 2250fps-3371fpe,Barnes
These are lever actions,and can still go step fpr step with the bolt action 350Rem Mag.
I had two different 350Rem mags.1 in Rem M660 and one in a Rem M600.The 350Rem Mag is a fine round.My only problem is i'm a lever action man.So i sold them and bought a Win M88 in 358win and Win M71 in 348win.Of course I had to put about $2000.00 in boot to get the two levers.Really the 350rem Mag can do nothing that the 348win or 358win can't do when they are souped up with handloads.In fact when they get to 250gr they have both caught the 350Rem Mag.Here I'll show you.
350Rem Mag 200gr 2710fps-3261fpe,Factory
358Win 200gr 2700fps-3236fps,conley
348Win 200gr 2560fps-2909fpe,conley
350Rem Mag 220gr 2650fps-3431fpe,Speer
358Win 225gr 2550fps-3248fpe,Conley
348Win 220gr 2475fps-2979fpe,Conley
350Rem 250gr 2350fps-3066fpe,Nosler
358Win 250gr 2425fps-3250fpe,Conley
348Win 250gr 2350fps-3060fpe,Factory
350Rem 300gr 2300fps-3525fpe.Barnes
358Win 300gr 2250fps-3371fpe,Barnes
These are lever actions,and can still go step fpr step with the bolt action 350Rem Mag.
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The velocities given for the .358 Win are above any of my current loading manuals (and some of the manuals are using test barrels as long at 26 inches).
I don't think that I would push the .358 to that level, personally. With substantially less case capacity than the .350 Rem Mag, it isn't going to exceed .350 RM specs without excessive pressure.
Be safe.
I don't think that I would push the .358 to that level, personally. With substantially less case capacity than the .350 Rem Mag, it isn't going to exceed .350 RM specs without excessive pressure.
Be safe.
358Win,let me enlighten you
Just for your records.I am able to exceed Conleys velocities with my Schultz & Larsen M54 single shot in 358Win with 27 1/2in barrel.
I'm am aware of the powder capacity difference between the 358win and the 350Rem Mag.I've owned two 350Rem Mags and handloaded for them for years before I sold them. Good Day! Enforcer
I understand your reluctance.I however have been loading for the 358win for 15 years.I assure you none of these loads exceed the SAAMI limit 52,000cup.These are loads you or anybody can see or purchase,just go to Conley Precision.Also Speer shows a load for the 358win with 220gr at 2500fps with 49.0grs of BL-C2 at only 50,500cup and Accurate shows a load for 200gr at 2600fps with 50.0grs of AA2520 at only 48,900cup.MikeG said:
Just for your records.I am able to exceed Conleys velocities with my Schultz & Larsen M54 single shot in 358Win with 27 1/2in barrel.
I'm am aware of the powder capacity difference between the 358win and the 350Rem Mag.I've owned two 350Rem Mags and handloaded for them for years before I sold them. Good Day! Enforcer
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39,114 Posts
"...only 50,500 CUP..."?????
That's not a trivial amount of chamber pressure! Most modern cartridges that are loaded to "only" ~50,000CUP (ie .270, .30-06, .308, etc.) are close to 60,000PSI, or higher, when measured with the piezo-electric transducer. Don't let the difference in the measuring systems confuse the issue.
If your .358 Win loads (or anyone else's for that matter) are exceeding full .350 Rem Mag velocities, then they are WELL in excess of the SAAMI pressure limit - I guarantee it.
The only way to get much more out of a cartridge is with the loading methods used by Federal and Hornady for their 'High Energy' and 'Light / Heavy Magnum' loads, respectively, where they are compressing far more (slow) powder in the case than the casual handloader can.
Note that the .350 Rem has a pressure limit of 53,000CUP, one of the highest limits in the industery - and just a bit more than the 52,000CUP of the .358 Win.
Yes, a very long barrel will increase velocities somewhat. But burning only 50 grains of medium speed powder in a .358" bore is not going to yield any fantastic gains beyond 22 or 24 inches.
I don't know who Mr. Conley is but I would be skeptical of any claims that it is possible to substantially exceed the published loading data, without unsafe pressure.
Mr. Conley's claims just don't pan out.
That's not a trivial amount of chamber pressure! Most modern cartridges that are loaded to "only" ~50,000CUP (ie .270, .30-06, .308, etc.) are close to 60,000PSI, or higher, when measured with the piezo-electric transducer. Don't let the difference in the measuring systems confuse the issue.
If your .358 Win loads (or anyone else's for that matter) are exceeding full .350 Rem Mag velocities, then they are WELL in excess of the SAAMI pressure limit - I guarantee it.
The only way to get much more out of a cartridge is with the loading methods used by Federal and Hornady for their 'High Energy' and 'Light / Heavy Magnum' loads, respectively, where they are compressing far more (slow) powder in the case than the casual handloader can.
Note that the .350 Rem has a pressure limit of 53,000CUP, one of the highest limits in the industery - and just a bit more than the 52,000CUP of the .358 Win.
Yes, a very long barrel will increase velocities somewhat. But burning only 50 grains of medium speed powder in a .358" bore is not going to yield any fantastic gains beyond 22 or 24 inches.
I don't know who Mr. Conley is but I would be skeptical of any claims that it is possible to substantially exceed the published loading data, without unsafe pressure.
Mr. Conley's claims just don't pan out.
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39,114 Posts
Well, I did what I should have in the first place. I visited Mr. Conley's web site. He posts the following disclaimer:
"All loads listed on the Hi-Performance and Handgun Hunting and Performance pages must not be used in any firearm that is not deemed safe by a competent gunsmith. These are full house loads and can be extremely hard on firearms not designed for their use. Damage to the firearm and/or shooter may result. If in doubt use the Cowboy Loadings for handguns and Standard Rifle loads for rifles. Please note any warnings located below the calibers on our WebPages. Also follow warning printed on the box. Since CPC has no control over how the ammunition is used or what type of firearm is actually used we extend no guarantees either written or implied to the use of these cartridges. All Standard Rifle Loads will be loaded to SAMMI specifications and pressure levels."
So... I read that to mean his "Hi-Power Premium" ammo (which is where some of the figures in this thread come from) is in fact loaded above SAAMI specs. Frankly, after reading that, I would not use any of his ammunition in any firearm for any reason whatsoever.
Case closed!
"All loads listed on the Hi-Performance and Handgun Hunting and Performance pages must not be used in any firearm that is not deemed safe by a competent gunsmith. These are full house loads and can be extremely hard on firearms not designed for their use. Damage to the firearm and/or shooter may result. If in doubt use the Cowboy Loadings for handguns and Standard Rifle loads for rifles. Please note any warnings located below the calibers on our WebPages. Also follow warning printed on the box. Since CPC has no control over how the ammunition is used or what type of firearm is actually used we extend no guarantees either written or implied to the use of these cartridges. All Standard Rifle Loads will be loaded to SAMMI specifications and pressure levels."
So... I read that to mean his "Hi-Power Premium" ammo (which is where some of the figures in this thread come from) is in fact loaded above SAAMI specs. Frankly, after reading that, I would not use any of his ammunition in any firearm for any reason whatsoever.
Case closed!
358Win
MikeG,I didn't ask you to use his loads.Nor did i ask anyone else to use his loads.I quoted ballistics,you debated them.I showed you where to find them.Not just from Conley,but Accurate and Speer.Just facts not opinion or speculation.Thats it.
I'm saying I don't exceed the 52,000cup limit for the 358win.Conley does not state whether he does or does not and Accurate(only a 100fps behind Conley) shows there cup pressure right there for all to see 48,900.I have seen no signs of high pressure in my loads based on Conleys.So surely you have not either,since you aren't there when they are loaded or shot.
I didn't say huge gains by using the longer 27 1/2in barrel.I said i could exceed Conleys velocities,thats all.
I do see your position on the subject.I'm not trying to sell you on anything(my loads,Conleys loads,Speers loads,my rifles,the 358win in general).If you do not feel comfortable shooting these loads.Please do not.I will.
Judge ye not shall ye be judged.Thanks Enforcer
MikeG,I didn't ask you to use his loads.Nor did i ask anyone else to use his loads.I quoted ballistics,you debated them.I showed you where to find them.Not just from Conley,but Accurate and Speer.Just facts not opinion or speculation.Thats it.
I'm saying I don't exceed the 52,000cup limit for the 358win.Conley does not state whether he does or does not and Accurate(only a 100fps behind Conley) shows there cup pressure right there for all to see 48,900.I have seen no signs of high pressure in my loads based on Conleys.So surely you have not either,since you aren't there when they are loaded or shot.
I didn't say huge gains by using the longer 27 1/2in barrel.I said i could exceed Conleys velocities,thats all.
I do see your position on the subject.I'm not trying to sell you on anything(my loads,Conleys loads,Speers loads,my rifles,the 358win in general).If you do not feel comfortable shooting these loads.Please do not.I will.
Judge ye not shall ye be judged.Thanks Enforcer
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39,114 Posts
Let's be clear - no one on the forum will tell you what to do at your house or with your loads. So good luck and have fun, I really mean that, it's nothing personal.
Mr. Conley does look like he is headed for trouble but that's just my personal opinion. The sheer number of disclaimers on his site ought to be a clue that something isn't right. I hate to see those kind of figures quoted on the web without any data to back them up as it can encourage some pretty dangerous reloads.
As an experience reloader you might see right through some of those claims but not everyone can, unfortunately. I have taught a few people to reload and you would not believe the kinds of ideas they get in their heads before every pulling the press handle.
Beartooth does not want to see excessive or dangerous load data on the forum, for a variety of obvious reasons. Nor would we like to see anyone else encouraged to stray from published load data.
There are all levels of shooters and reloaders reading this forum, and we hope we can educate and encourage them to enjoy the shooting sports, safely.
While I can appreciate the 'judge not' maxim, in this case, it's my job as a moderator to do just that.
Mr. Conley does look like he is headed for trouble but that's just my personal opinion. The sheer number of disclaimers on his site ought to be a clue that something isn't right. I hate to see those kind of figures quoted on the web without any data to back them up as it can encourage some pretty dangerous reloads.
As an experience reloader you might see right through some of those claims but not everyone can, unfortunately. I have taught a few people to reload and you would not believe the kinds of ideas they get in their heads before every pulling the press handle.
Beartooth does not want to see excessive or dangerous load data on the forum, for a variety of obvious reasons. Nor would we like to see anyone else encouraged to stray from published load data.
There are all levels of shooters and reloaders reading this forum, and we hope we can educate and encourage them to enjoy the shooting sports, safely.
While I can appreciate the 'judge not' maxim, in this case, it's my job as a moderator to do just that.
358 high pressure loads
MikeG,point taken.I have bought ammo from Conley and was sent to him by two guys from the Marlin Talk.These guys had nothing but praise for Conley and are well known and respected on that site.I have found him to be very professional and knowledgable about every caliber he loads.He is there on the premium bullets loads at least to ring every bit out of a cartridge and he does what others can not,have not or will not do.
I will be contacting Conley and expressing some of your thoughts and others I'm sure on his rounds.We will then see how he chooses to handle the issue.I will see if pressures are available for his loads,and then will post or have him post them.
Thanks MikeG.I will not post ballistics on this site ever again,mine or anybody elses!
Enforcer
MikeG,point taken.I have bought ammo from Conley and was sent to him by two guys from the Marlin Talk.These guys had nothing but praise for Conley and are well known and respected on that site.I have found him to be very professional and knowledgable about every caliber he loads.He is there on the premium bullets loads at least to ring every bit out of a cartridge and he does what others can not,have not or will not do.
I will be contacting Conley and expressing some of your thoughts and others I'm sure on his rounds.We will then see how he chooses to handle the issue.I will see if pressures are available for his loads,and then will post or have him post them.
Thanks MikeG.I will not post ballistics on this site ever again,mine or anybody elses!
Enforcer
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While all the data on various calibers has been interesting, the original question was about a particular rifle in a particular caliber. kciH has shot one, and says it's a thumper from the bench. I have two friends who used the 350 Rem, one in a Rem 600 and the other a Ruger 77. Both found the round highly effective for deer and bear - it's a thumper at the receiving end, too.
I wouldn't let all the ballistics debate sway me too much - all the rounds mentioned are good, effective rounds. Judge your choice by the rifle! Does it fit you well, come up naturally, does it weigh what you want to carry, does it have the features you want? To me, those are the most important things when selecting a rifle...
Just anudder opinion! IDShooter
I wouldn't let all the ballistics debate sway me too much - all the rounds mentioned are good, effective rounds. Judge your choice by the rifle! Does it fit you well, come up naturally, does it weigh what you want to carry, does it have the features you want? To me, those are the most important things when selecting a rifle...
Just anudder opinion! IDShooter
ID Shooter.....I can testify it was more than just a thumper in that 6.5 pound rifle back in those days of yesteryear, at the bench with 250 grain bullets, it would jaw your gold fillings loose by golly. In those days everybody including the gun rag boys, used the 250 grain bullet in the rifle......the 200 grainer just didn't cut the mustard in those days, not really enough penetration......so it was said. It simply ended up being a one bullet weight for caliber in that lightweight rifle for the most part. I think that is what really hurt the rifle.......that and it's recoil the shooter suffered.
Now days I understand the factory is only making the 200 grain bullet weight for the rifle. I guess if you are shooting a Barnes or a Failsafe type bullet, it will give enough penetration, other wise I have my doubts about it on bigger game animals. I still think the 338/06 has it beat around the clock.......many more bullet weights to choose from for starters and flatter trajectory as well, not to mention the 338/06 being a 100+fps faster. You can also go up to a 275 grain if need be in a Swift A Frame bullet.
Now days I understand the factory is only making the 200 grain bullet weight for the rifle. I guess if you are shooting a Barnes or a Failsafe type bullet, it will give enough penetration, other wise I have my doubts about it on bigger game animals. I still think the 338/06 has it beat around the clock.......many more bullet weights to choose from for starters and flatter trajectory as well, not to mention the 338/06 being a 100+fps faster. You can also go up to a 275 grain if need be in a Swift A Frame bullet.
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350
I have used the 350 in a Rem 660 for 13 years and killed dozens of caribou with it. I had a 358 Win and a 308 Win and sold both after using the 350. The 350 has a very similar expansion ratio to the 308 and will shoot bullets of the same sd about as fast. Any-one who thinks the 358 can be loaded to the same speed as the 350 has not loaded both rounds to their full potential or is playing with different barrel lengths. I get at least 150-200 feet/sec more from the 350 which makes sense from a capacity point of view.
I tested about all bullets from 150 grain Rem CLockts to 300 Barnes Originals. I have pretty much settled on the 225 Nosler Partition at 2700ft/sec for everything from caribou to Moose. Recoil isn't at all bad unless you play with the real heavy 275 & 300 grain bullets. Even then it only hurts from prone. The 225 Grain Barnes X penetrates as well as the 275 grainers from Hawk so I am not sure you need the heavy weight. My 660 is a real sub MOA carbine. One lot of Hornady 180 grain SSP bullets cut .5" with 60 grains of 3031 so I bought 500 of another lot number. They are .001 less in diameter and shoot into 1.75 MOA. All lots of 225 Noslers tested go into 1.25 or less with 4320 and 748. 200 Hornady Spires and 60 grains of 4320 shoot MOA and is a moderate load. Cases live a long time. The 200 Rem Corelockt is a really fine bullet mushrooming to 60 caliber and holding onto it's weight unless hitting heavy bone at close range. Not enough for Moose in my opinion unless you pick your shot carefully.
I have used the 350 in a Rem 660 for 13 years and killed dozens of caribou with it. I had a 358 Win and a 308 Win and sold both after using the 350. The 350 has a very similar expansion ratio to the 308 and will shoot bullets of the same sd about as fast. Any-one who thinks the 358 can be loaded to the same speed as the 350 has not loaded both rounds to their full potential or is playing with different barrel lengths. I get at least 150-200 feet/sec more from the 350 which makes sense from a capacity point of view.
I tested about all bullets from 150 grain Rem CLockts to 300 Barnes Originals. I have pretty much settled on the 225 Nosler Partition at 2700ft/sec for everything from caribou to Moose. Recoil isn't at all bad unless you play with the real heavy 275 & 300 grain bullets. Even then it only hurts from prone. The 225 Grain Barnes X penetrates as well as the 275 grainers from Hawk so I am not sure you need the heavy weight. My 660 is a real sub MOA carbine. One lot of Hornady 180 grain SSP bullets cut .5" with 60 grains of 3031 so I bought 500 of another lot number. They are .001 less in diameter and shoot into 1.75 MOA. All lots of 225 Noslers tested go into 1.25 or less with 4320 and 748. 200 Hornady Spires and 60 grains of 4320 shoot MOA and is a moderate load. Cases live a long time. The 200 Rem Corelockt is a really fine bullet mushrooming to 60 caliber and holding onto it's weight unless hitting heavy bone at close range. Not enough for Moose in my opinion unless you pick your shot carefully.
358Win-350Rem mag
Never said the 358win exceeded the 350Rem Mag.Only one load i posted exceeded the 350Rem Mag.That could mean like you said a couple things.350Rem Mag loaded light and shot out of short 18.5in or 20in barrel and 358win loaded hot and shot out of a 26in or 27 1/2in barrel.
I have settled on the 225gr at 2550fps out of 24in barrel in 358win.That will ,does and shall continue to get the job done in fine fashion.I also settled on the 220gr Barnes XFN in 348Win at 2475fps out of 24in barrel.Ditto for it on game from 50yd brush shot to 250yds plains shot.Groundhog to grizzly bear and everything in between!
Never said the 358win exceeded the 350Rem Mag.Only one load i posted exceeded the 350Rem Mag.That could mean like you said a couple things.350Rem Mag loaded light and shot out of short 18.5in or 20in barrel and 358win loaded hot and shot out of a 26in or 27 1/2in barrel.
I have settled on the 225gr at 2550fps out of 24in barrel in 358win.That will ,does and shall continue to get the job done in fine fashion.I also settled on the 220gr Barnes XFN in 348Win at 2475fps out of 24in barrel.Ditto for it on game from 50yd brush shot to 250yds plains shot.Groundhog to grizzly bear and everything in between!
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31 Posts
love my 350!
Enforcer: Fair Enough:
Don't get me wrong, my old 358 impressed the **** out of me. The ballistics are amazing out of such a little case. Very, very efficient. Just started playing with the little brother 308 again after a 13 year hiatus and I am amazed with how well it works.
Could sell all my other rifles and use the 308 and never really miss much but where is the fun in that?
However like the 30-06 can offer just a bit more than the 308, so can the 350 over the 358 all things being equal.
Enforcer: Fair Enough:
Don't get me wrong, my old 358 impressed the **** out of me. The ballistics are amazing out of such a little case. Very, very efficient. Just started playing with the little brother 308 again after a 13 year hiatus and I am amazed with how well it works.
Could sell all my other rifles and use the 308 and never really miss much but where is the fun in that?
However like the 30-06 can offer just a bit more than the 308, so can the 350 over the 358 all things being equal.
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