[t0mmy2u]

I have completed my new deer gun. It was a 336 Marlin in 30/30 theft recovery gun when I took possesion of it and thought it a great candidate for upgrading. I dismantled the gun and threw away the 30 caliber barrel, added a Shilen 35 c aliber barrel chambered in 356/358 winchester. I do not condone shooting 358 winchester loads in any Marlin. but with the thick brass of the 356, you can. It kicks like a mule as I left my barrel at 24 inches,(straight back) but shoots a ragged hole at 100 yards with Leverevelution 200s.

Any thoughts?

Tommy

 

[evandailey]

What reason do you have to think that the .356 is safe but the .358 is not?

I seem to remember reading an article, I can't recall the source, that asserted that 336 actions had been the same design all along and the author had proceeded to re-chamber a .35 Remington to .358 Winchester stating that since the rifle was available from the factory in .356 Win then it was perfectly acceptable to chamber it for .358.

I have no direct experience one way or the other. I simply found it interesting that you were stating the opposite of that article, as I had considered doing the same one day.

 

[seatleroadwr]

Did you do the work yourself or did you have a smith do the work?

 

[t0mmy2u]

My brother is a smith so I get to try new projects as they come to mind, and a Marlin 336 in 356 win was my lat one that came to fruitation. Next is a Ruger 77 that I have recently aquired (now a 270), being turned into a 35 Whelen.

The 358 and the 356 Winchester rounds are NOT exactly the same, the outside dementions are as you use the same dies and reamer, but, and I MEAN but, the brass for the 356 is much heavier walled to withstand the 52k cup pressures that it is factory loaded to. All the Winchester Big Bores, ie 307, 356 and the 375 share this trait. That is the only reason it is acceptable to shoot in a lever gun designed for 38k to 42k cup. In a pinch, one can shoot 358s in a 356, but I would seriously consider downloading a bit to keep a bolt from giving the shooter a lobotomy. I know there are many that do shoot factory loaded 358s in the same set up that I have, but to be the first casualty is not a record that I want to be famous for.

The gun has not yet been shot over the chrono but will submit the figures as they come in. But the gun has been papered and with all that I have tried thus far, it shoots so well, those bolt guys have to work for bragging rights.

Thanks guys for the replies and hopefully some intrest will be renewed in this overlooked cartridge. Long live the 35s! One only has the use a 35 caliber in the field to see what it has going for it, paper ballistics dont kill deer. Be it a 357 magnum up to 35 Whelen......even the 358 Norma Mag.


Tommy

 

[evandailey]

.....even the 358 Norma Mag.

That's MY preferred poison. However my current .35 project is a .35-30/30.

 

[Tnhunter]

I like my 336ER/.356 enough that after owning it since 1985, I bought a Marlin .375 last year just to keep it company. That .375 went to the woods today, but the hammer didn't drop. Maybe tomorrow.

I also lucked out with 6 boxes of Winchester factory ammo about a year ago; 4/200gr and 2/250gr for a total of $120/shipped

 

[William Iorg]

It has been my experience there is little difference between the 308 Winchester, the 307 Winchester and the re-formed 444 Marlin brass when it comes to case capacity. The thread linked will give the details. We found the same relationship with 358 Winchester, 356 Winchester and re-formed 444 Marlin brass.
Loads in the different brass will shoot to a different point on impact so the brass is not interchangeable in the same box.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=24190&highlight=.307+winchester+brass

 

[BenT]

The brass shouldn't matter. But don't use 358 WIN load data. The 358 has a larger over all length. Thus can have more case capacity because of the fact that the bullet doesn't have to be seated as deep as on the 356 in ordered to be cycled through the action. I just want to make sure everyone is aware of that fact.

Now with that being said , the 356 is my favorite levergun cartridge. Even though I just shot my first deer on Sunday with the 338MX and was impressed with it's performance. I need to do some deep clinical research in the woods to determine which I like better.

 

[mikenz]

If you want a 35 I agree go with the 35-30/30. Just reize 30/30 brass to 35 calibre. No worries about pressures.

 

[broom_jm]

From the 12th edition of Cartridges of the World, as written by Frank Barnes and edited by Layne Simpson:

"The ballistics of the 356 are slightly below the older rimless 358. Although it has been reported that the 356 Winchester and 307 have thicker case walls than the corresponding rimless 308 and 358 cartridges (and therefore reduced internal volume), measurements do not verify this."

I've worked with 2 different gunsmiths who have created wildcats on the 356 case, for single-shot actions, and both confirm the case capacity is not, in fact, less than than the 358 Win, nor is the brass thickness notably different.

 

[Tnhunter]

I own and hunt with both an original 336ER and a BLR in .358. They are both great rifles and pretty much simply interchangable up to their effective ranges (IMHO). My harvests with both these rifles shows their performance(s) to be as one as well. If a fella wants a .358Win he ought to simply pony up and buy the more $$ BLR (well, it ain't more expensive than a real 336ER anyway). To build a .356 Win on a 336 frame (rebore OR rebarrel) is fine in my eyes, but to further push the envelope and shoot .358 data/loads/cartridges is simply unnecessary. Perhaps some don't like keeping their face as it was before touching off the trigger on a hot load not meant for a rifle, but I kinda like mine, even as ugly as this mug is....

Simply my opinion. Yours, of course, may vary.

 

[eagleeye]

I'd like to hear a bit more about this 35-3030 project. Would this be headspaced on the rim like the 30-30 or on the shoulder like the 35 Rem?

How does one go about getting a 30 caliber barrel bored out and rifled to a 35 caliber. Or do you have to get a custom made barrel?

 

[twodot]

eagleeye,

some of your answers can be found here http://35caliber.com/
..

 

[eagleeye]

I saw nothing at this site that described anything. Just a listing of rebores and only a single mention of a 35-3030 with no description and I could find no data on any performance or anything.

I must be missing something.

 

[picketpin]

I'm with eagleeye, tell us more about your project!

james

 

[Tnhunter]

I saw nothing at this site that described anything. Just a listing of rebores and only a single mention of a 35-3030 with no description and I could find no data on any performance or anything.

I must be missing something.

Look across the top of the page and click on the options listed there. tells all the conversions/rebores they do and they do a lot

 

[evandailey]

I'd like to hear a bit more about this 35-3030 project. Would this be headspaced on the rim like the 30-30 or on the shoulder like the 35 Rem?

How does one go about getting a 30 caliber barrel bored out and rifled to a 35 caliber. Or do you have to get a custom made barrel?

My .35-30/30 headspaces on the rim just like a 30/30. I sent the whole rifle (Model 94 30/30) out to Jesse Ocumpaugh (He's the one with the www.35caliber.com website) he robored the original .30 cal barrel re-assembled the rifle and sent it back to me. $225 and seven days total from the time I shipped it out until the time I had it back finished. I couldn't be happier with his work or the rifle.

I got my dies from CH4-D. They had them in stock.

I use 35 Remington load data backed off a bit to start and have been able to equal factory 35 Rem performance.

 

[t0mmy2u]

The brass shouldn't matter. But don't use 358 WIN load data. The 358 has a larger over all length. Thus can have more case capacity because of the fact that the bullet doesn't have to be seated as deep as on the 356 in ordered to be cycled through the action. I just want to make sure everyone is aware of that fact.

I guess that was my point from the beginning, 358 brass should work as long as the extractor gets a good bite, but the data cannot be swapped from one to the other. Ive heard of guys shooting factory loaded 358 Win. in a 336, but cant see that as safe. My 356 clocks 2640 fps with a 200gr, so I am happy with that.

Tommy

 

[leverite]

From the 12th edition of Cartridges of the World, as written by Frank Barnes and edited by Layne Simpson:

"The ballistics of the 356 are slightly below the older rimless 358. Although it has been reported that the 356 Winchester and 307 have thicker case walls than the corresponding rimless 308 and 358 cartridges (and therefore reduced internal volume), measurements do not verify this."

I've worked with 2 different gunsmiths who have created wildcats on the 356 case, for single-shot actions, and both confirm the case capacity is not, in fact, less than than the 358 Win, nor is the brass thickness notably different.

And both the 358 and 356 have the same SAAMI pressure spec...52k cup.

 

[one punch]

Will the 35-30 out do the 35rem ? What is it close to in terms of performance ?