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Olympic makes a 10mm carbine. If you already have an AR lower, a 10mm upper will work w/that lower. Olympic Carbines do not require any other changes to the lower in order to function (other than a SMG buffer, an easy, 2 minute change). Some Carbine uppers require a dif hammer or other parts.

olyarms.com

But, they do not make, I don't think, any low-cap mags.
 

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I THINK NUGENTBLOWS HAS BEEN LISTENING TO MUSIC MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. MOST LIKELY THAT RECORD CALLED BLOWING HOT AIR!!!:rolleyes:

NOW I'LL GIVE YOU SOME FIGURES WITH MY 10MM GLOCK AND 6 INCH BARREL SHOOTING 125 GRN BULLETS. IT WILL MAX OUT OR SURPASS YOUR COONAN WITH 125 BULLETS.

LET US COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES MY FRIEND AND NOT PEANUTS TO APPLES!:( THE .357 MAG IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THE 10MM, WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE .41MAG AS JW STATED BUT THEN AGAIN WHAT THE HECK DO GUYS WHO ARE OVER 60 KNOW RIGHT.:eek: :rolleyes: :(
GEEZ, GIVE ME A BRAKE SET UP A CHRONY AND CHECK THINGS FOR YOURSELF BY GOLLY. RUN YOUR OWN TESTS AND NOT SOMEBODIES ELSES PRINT ON PAPER.:rolleyes::(:(
 

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When you really compare the 357 Magnum and 10mm Auto, you find the difference is not worth all caps, 8 smileys or three exclamation points. With like bullet weights, velocity is almost identical. The 10mm bullet will make a bigger hole and the 357 bullet will have a slightly better SD, for similar bullets.

They both run ~35,000psi and have fairly similar case capacity. Out of a carbine, the 357 might be a little faster, but it could hardly be dramatically different. Both are at the low end of suitable for deer. In some locales the 357 is legal for deer hunting, while the 10mm is not.
 

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2bits, your "caps lock" key appears to be stuck....
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
I THINK NUGENTBLOWS HAS BEEN LISTENING TO MUSIC MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. MOST LIKELY THAT RECORD CALLED BLOWING HOT AIR!!!:rolleyes:

NOW I'LL GIVE YOU SOME FIGURES WITH MY 10MM GLOCK AND 6 INCH BARREL SHOOTING 125 GRN BULLETS. IT WILL MAX OUT OR SURPASS YOUR COONAN WITH 125 BULLETS.

LET US COMPARE APPLES TO APPLES MY FRIEND AND NOT PEANUTS TO APPLES!:( THE .357 MAG IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THE 10MM, WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE .41MAG AS JW STATED BUT THEN AGAIN WHAT THE HECK DO GUYS WHO ARE OVER 60 KNOW RIGHT.:eek: :rolleyes: :(
GEEZ, GIVE ME A BRAKE SET UP A CHRONY AND CHECK THINGS FOR YOURSELF BY GOLLY. RUN YOUR OWN TESTS AND NOT SOMEBODIES ELSES PRINT ON PAPER.:rolleyes::(:(
Don't go home mad Musky ......... just go home. But seriously there's no reason to lose your temper I thought we were having a civilized discussion. I won't bother you with facts anymore as to not hurt your feelings and let you believe whatever you want. I really don't care. Maybe it's time to close this thread before 2 bits blows a nut. There's no telling what someone who is convinced that his Glock 20 is the equivelant of a 41 Mag might do and I don't own a Coonan Don't know why you thought I did.
 

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With like bullet weights, velocity is almost identical. The 10mm bullet will make a bigger hole and the 357 bullet will have a slightly better SD, for similar bullets.
Again, like a .270/.280 comparison. Pretty minimal.

Several states are considering "pistol length" rounds for deer, as many states are swamped with deer accidents, and crop damage. I wonder if the discussion will go down on actual application.

In a carbine, both will be second place, or even third to rifles in .41 Mag or .44 Mag. As I shoot several deer a year with a bow, I'd be thrilled to see end of year doe/population management allow either.

Time will tell.
 

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Originally Posted by 2Bits View Post
I THINK NUGENTBLOWS HAS BEEN LISTENING TO MUSIC MORE OFTEN THAN NOT. MOST LIKELY THAT RECORD CALLED BLOWING HOT AIR!!!

NOW I'LL GIVE YOU SOME FIGURES WITH MY 10MM GLOCK AND 6 INCH BARREL SHOOTING 125 GRN BULLETS. IT WILL MAX OUT OR SURPASS YOUR COONAN WITH 125 BULLETS.

////////////////////////////////////////////

Just a comment not meant to stir up anyone....
I've been hand loading for 10mm for two years and I dont think I have ever seen
a commercially available 125gr pistol bullet in that caliber ? ? ?

If I wanted to do a more reasonable (but irrelevant) comparison between 357 and 10mm I would
look to the 160gr loads which I think are somewhat similar in velocities or close enough
that the target animal wont know the difference. The BIGGEST relevance is that
the 10mm is rimless and better suited to semi auto actions whereas the 357 being rimmed
would be more suitable for lever action and single shot break action rifles.

For marketplace reasons, there are no affordable 10mm rifles ( I dont consider an
AR-15 blow back conversion to be a realistic offering for $1100 or $1200 bucks )
but I know there are several lever action rifles available in 357 and I can take my
$50 used NEF 12 ga shotgun and get a 38/357 factory barrel for $135 incl shipping.

Many guys are taking these NEF Handi-Rifles 357 rifles and loading these to 25-40 percent
higher chamber pressures and getting performance equaling 30-30 cartridges.

I know you cannot do that with the 10mm. There simply is not enough room in
the case.
 

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Hey mike, that is because i can not see small print anymore ok!!!

Never mine sir...........you just color me gone with the wind~~~~~~
 

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2bits - you can increase the font size in your browser as you post the forum. Just FYI. Hold down the "CTRL" key then tap the "+" key. That should help.
 

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I noticed today that Underwood Ammo was advertising 357 mag 180 gr at 1400fps
and 10mm 180gr at 1300fps. There was no specific mention of pistols or rifles
but both rounds are close in performance etc.
 

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The 10 mm is close to the 41 mag on the food chain.
THE .357 MAG IS NOT IN THE SAME LEAGUE AS THE 10MM, WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE .41MAG
The 10mm is close to the .41 Mag in terms of bullet diameter, so in that sense then yes the 10mm and .40 and 38/40 are close to the .41 Magnum. But that's about as close as the 10mm gets to the .41 Magnum.

Nobody should ever argue that the .41 Mag is ballistically quite superior to the 10mm as it shoots heavier, bigger caliber bullets a good clip faster than the 10mm. When you then compare them, it's clear the 10mm is closer, no essentially identical (bullet wt. vs. bullet wt, velocity vs. velocity) to a .357 Magnum (it's really the most similar to the .40 S&W). If you can say the 10mm is close to the .41 Mag, then you would have to say the .40 and .357 Mag are too.
 

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The 10mm is close to the .41 Mag in terms of bullet diameter, so in that sense then yes the 10mm and .40 and 38/40 are close to the .41 Magnum. But that's about as close as the 10mm gets to the .41 Magnum.

Nobody should ever argue that the .41 Mag is ballistically quite superior to the 10mm as it shoots heavier, bigger caliber bullets a good clip faster than the 10mm. When you then compare them, it's clear the 10mm is closer, no essentially identical (bullet wt. vs. bullet wt, velocity vs. velocity) to a .357 Magnum (it's really the most similar to the .40 S&W). If you can say the 10mm is close to the .41 Mag, then you would have to say the .40 and .357 Mag are too.


Not sure how you came to your conclusion, but a 220 grain hard cast in the 10mm at 1200 fps out of a 5" 1911 is higher on the food chain than any 357 mag load and not far behind a 41 mag.

10mm Auto 220 Grain Hard Cast Flat Nose Box of 50

The 10mm has more bullet. Weight and larger diameter than a 357 mag.
 
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Not sure how you came to your conclusion, but a 220 grain hard cast in the 10mm at 1200 fps out of a 5" 1911 is higher on the food chain than any 357 mag load and not far behind a 41 mag.

10mm Auto 220 Grain Hard Cast Flat Nose Box of 50

The 10mm has more bullet. Weight and larger diameter than a 357 mag.
Compared to the .357 Mag, no I"m not aware of any 220gr .357 load offerings, but DT does offer a 200gr .357 Mag that does 1,200 fps from a 4" revolver

DoubleTap Ammunition

So that's pretty darn close. A .41 Mag can shoot a 265gr hardcast to 1500 fps, which if you compared that to the 220gr 10mm load, then yes the 10mm is (in terms of power) still a good clip closer to the .357 Mag.

.357 Mag 200gr @ 1,200 fps
10mm 220gr @ 1,200 fps (+20gr +0 fps gain over .357 Mag)
41 Mag 265gr @ 1,500 fps (+45gr +300 fps gain over 10mm)

I'm not arguing that the 10mm is ineffective or anything, I'm simply showing how it's not really any higher on the food chain than the .357 Magnum is, and if it is it's only barely.
 

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Compared to the .357 Mag, no I"m not aware of any 220gr .357 load offerings, but DT does offer a 200gr .357 Mag that does 1,200 fps from a 4" revolver

DoubleTap Ammunition

So that's pretty darn close. A .41 Mag can shoot a 265gr hardcast to 1500 fps, which if you compared that to the 220gr 10mm load, then yes the 10mm is (in terms of power) still a good clip closer to the .357 Mag.

.357 Mag 200gr @ 1,200 fps
10mm 220gr @ 1,200 fps (+20gr +0 fps gain over .357 Mag)
41 Mag 265gr @ 1,500 fps (+45gr +300 fps gain over 10mm)

I'm not arguing that the 10mm is ineffective or anything, I'm simply showing how it's not really any higher on the food chain than the .357 Magnum is, and if it is it's only barely.
IME it is definitely higher on the food chain than a 357. Experience from taking game with a handgun gives the edge to the larger diameter cartridges in this case the 10mm. Obviously you are bashing yor claim on kinetic energy which terribly flawed when predicting terminal performance. The flat point hard casts bullets are great penetrators, but the edge in wound channel size goes to the 10mm when compared to the 357 mag.

I have tried those 41 mag 265 trainers in my 41 mag revolver and 1260 fps is what I chronographed. The Underwood 220's in my 10mm got a tad over the claimed 1200 fps. In the game fields the 10mm with a 220 hard cast will give results close to the 41 mag with like bullets the 41 is a bit faster. Both are higher on the food chain than a 357 in my experience.
 

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The majority of 10mm bullets are designed to be shot at handgun velocities, where there are actually a few good choices for .357 bullets that will perform correctly at higher speeds. In a carbine or rifle length firearm I would have to give the nod to the .357 magnum. If people want to know what 10mm bullets do at 2000fps and above just ask my brother-in-law about his 10mm wildcat. In hind sight he said he would have chosen a different caliber. Even Hornady 200gr xtp's won't stay together. He is experimenting with 300gr cast lead now in hopes of a deep penetrating bullet that will mushroom.
 

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IME it is definitely higher on the food chain than a 357. Experience from taking game with a handgun gives the edge to the larger diameter cartridges in this case the 10mm. Obviously you are bashing yor claim on kinetic energy which terribly flawed when predicting terminal performance. The flat point hard casts bullets are great penetrators, but the edge in wound channel size goes to the 10mm when compared to the 357 mag.

I have tried those 41 mag 265 trainers in my 41 mag revolver and 1260 fps is what I chronographed. The Underwood 220's in my 10mm got a tad over the claimed 1200 fps. In the game fields the 10mm with a 220 hard cast will give results close to the 41 mag with like bullets the 41 is a bit faster. Both are higher on the food chain than a 357 in my experience.

You make an excellent point about WFN hard-cast bullets being very effective at penetrating and killing game animals. Marshall has proven it with a 357 Magnum on cow elk.

Buy yourself a very small blanket and one rifle each in 357, 10mm, and 41 Magnum. Done.
 

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I've been loading for and shooting 10mm's since 1987 IMR800X is the powder for this round it bumps up performance to a league of its own.

I have the following 4 10mm's right now

Colt Delta Elite 6" barrel
Glock 20 5" barrel
Glock 29 4.25" barrel
18" T/C Contender carbine barrel

With IMR800X I have pushed 135gr Nosler JHP's to 1825fps in the 6" Colt this same load if I remember correctly does 2300fps in the 18" barrel.

Due to the performance I get from the 10mm cartridge I have no desire to own a 357 mag unless it is a SST 5 shot 5" barreled S&W J-Frame.

This link should take you to my velocity info @ Glock Talk 10mm Reloading forum that Carphunter compiled a few years ago.

10mm Carbine load data and info - Glock Talk
 

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And now in 2020 we have the new contender. The 350 Legend that spanks them both. Shoots 147 to 180 gr boolits. And best of all, it is capable of 1moa at 100 yards and is effective out to 200 yards. It is similar in one way to the 300 BO in that it doesn’t bleed off much energy with a 12 inch barrel from a 20 inch barrel,and can be chosen in an AR platform or 3 different bolt action rifles. A BFR revolver may be in the making. One last point. Cheep plinking ammo.
 
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