[BugShooter]

I have the close range deer options covered for the IL woods. Haven't shot anything farther away than 50 yds. All have been harvested w/ the usual suspects -- 12 ga slugs and 54 cal round ball.

I have carried a .357 mag, but it has been a learning experience.

Missed an opportunity with my Python at perhaps 20 yds because I couldn't find the critter in my 2X scope--early morning, low light. Dummy. Open sights and it was mine.

Will be using a holographic site in that situation in the future...2x scope is out.

But here is my self-imposed dilemma.

What if I get a chance at a deer a tad farther away than I am comfortable with my smoothbore slug gun or my .357? This has happened twice...a none-too-smart deer got startled by a misfire from my muzzle loader, ran off about 70 yds, then turned broad-side and looked back at me. I'm sure it was saying...wuzzat? to itself, and I got to just sit there and ponder -- what if I had a cartridge that I felt confidence in "out there" at 100+ yds?

The opportunities have been few, so I'm not talking about a gun that will save my season by allowing me to shoot the only deer I will see beyond the range of my 54 cal Hawken, or 12 ga, or 357mag revolver. .... but as I currently feel I cannot harvest that one deer in 40 that I see during the season that shows itself beyond my comfort range with these other firearms I am forced, forced mind you, to consider buying an IL legal deer barrel for my T/C Contender.

Must be straight walled pistol cartridge or 300 Whisper or 30 Bellm.

The only pistol cartridge that interests me is the 357 Maximum--already have 158 and 180 gr bullets, 357 mag dies that will work, so that cartridge makes sense. Don't have to buy anything but the brass to go with the barrel.

Then there are the only two bottleneck cartridges allowed in IL: 300 Whisper and 30 Bellm.

I don't know anything about either besides what I've read in on-line reviews. the 300 Whisper seems to be a darling of the military rifle crowd and what little I've seen says the 30 Bellm is ballistically superior to the Whisper.

Unfortunately, the reviews of the 30 Bellm are from Mr. Bellm himself and one other (when I say unfortunately, I don't mean any disrespect, just would like a review from a shooter w/ no dog in the fight).

If I go with the recommendation of the developer of this round, buy his dies and his brass (formed from trimmed/necked down .444 Marlin brass), I have to buy custom dies and more expensive brass than the 357 Max brass.

.... but .... I have a very cool looking cartridge that may have ompf out to 200 yds! Not that I'd ever see a deer in IL that far away in season where I have permission to hunt when I have my gun w/ me, standing still long enough for me to get out the shooting sticks, settle myself down, draw a bead on it, and squeeeeeze, etc., etc.

Anyway...

Anybody know anything about the 30 Bellm?

Anybody shot it?

Hunted w/ it?

Know anybody that knows anybody that has?

 

[broom_jm]

I feel your pain, but in your circumstances (even worse than mine, here in Indiana) the MAX is really your best option:

http://357maximum.com/

Also, you might talk to David White of D&T Gunsmithing (ASSASSIN, on these pages) about what he can do with the 357Max. It's a legitimate 200 yard gun as well, but won't cost nearly as much to put in your gun safe.

Jason

 

[jbmabrey]

I agree with Jason, you already have the ability to handload the max. Brass is much more available.

Look again at Mike Bellms page http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=121 and you'll see he is very pro 357 max. His writings motivated me to buy a custom MGM barrel for my encore handgun frame. I live in Delaware and the same restictions apply here as Il. and Ind.

I recently bought a second barrel from an older guy here in De. He had developed Parkinson like symptoms and could not hold his pistols steady. It was an MGM bull barrel.
If I were to do it over I would call Mike and buy one of his barrels. I had to get a local gunsmith to lengthen the chamber of my first barrel (it wasn't even long enough for the listed OAL. MGM would have lengthened it but it would be 2 month turnaround.

I started using the Hornady 180 gr. SS/PB shoots just as good as the xtp and Rem 180 gr. but you get about 60 more yards of effective range with it. I spoke with the Hornady guy at the factory and he uses that bullet out to 200 yards. He felt the xtp is limited to about 100-120 in the max.

After my experiences, I personally would contact Mike and explore that direction(buying one of his barrels) rather than buy a new barrel, that way it get's done the right way the first time.

. JMHA--http://www.lasc.us/bellmCustomReworkBarrel.htm

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell357Max.htm

Good luck, let us know what you finally get, John

 

[broom_jm]

JB,

Is your MAX a pistol or rifle-length barrel? I didn't realize DE had the same dumb reg's as Indiana.

 

[jbmabrey]

Sorry I wasn't clear about that. Both are 12.5" barrels. One is ss bull barrel and second is reg. barrel with brake. we can't even use a rifle in this state except 22's and other rifles for groundhogs and other varmints.
these regs were what was decided when they first allowed handgun hunting. they also failed to include muzzleloader handguns. I also hunt in Maryland(ml handgun allowed) and Pa. allows them also.
My tc encores are sporting a 50 cal. barrel and a cut down bergarra 45 cal barrel. both of these when charged with 90 gr. of any powder and using a 250 gr. bullet will generate more power than 357 mag(legal) and many average 44 loads.
I got a small doe 2 years ago with the 50 cal.

 

[zb338]

I have a .357 Max. barrel for my contender pistol. I used it to
shoot matalic silhouettes with. I never killed anything with it
but it's pretty flat shooting and hard hitting in a pistol. As our
guide in Wyoming used to say "she really carries quite well".

Zeke

 

[skb2706]

The .308 Bellm is a bottleneck cartridge I believe he uses .444 Marlin brass, .308 Win dies and necks 'em down.

If you go with the .357 max I would suggest laying in a good stock of brass. Its not always easy to find with only one source that I am aware of.

 

[broom_jm]

While Remington is the only company I'm aware of who is currently making 357 Max cases, they do not seem to be in short supply. Midway, Midsouth, Bluestar and Natchez all have them in-stock, in large quantities. With the number of rifles being chambered in this cartridge, plus the wildcatting that has been done with this case, I don't see supplies of these running out any sooner than the 444 Marlin.

 

[Carpe Diem]

.357 Max brass availability has been very cyclic. A few years ago it was very tough to find Max brass (this was before the recent Obama scare). Now it is apparently easy. If history is a guide, a shortage is again in the future.


.

 

[broom_jm]

Actually, a lot of folks have figured out that the 357Max is the easiest, least expensive way to a pretty good little rifle; one that is still legal for the PCR regulations which have been adopted in several states. That has a lot to do with improved availability (how would the Obama scare improve availability?) and why you will most likely be able to find brass for that cartridge in the foreseeable future.

 

[BugShooter]

Decided on the 357Max, 12" barrel.

Found a used 357mag, straight barrel on another forum and sent it off to Mike B for the conversion. I also asked Mike to install a Weaver-style mount on it.

I have the brass, bullets, and powder, but somehow in all the planning I haven't acquired the small rifle primes. As soon as that task is completed the loading can begin.

Starting with H110 and 180gr LBT bullets w/ GC's.

I hope the deer in soughern IL are getting at least a little nervous...

 

[broom_jm]

Thanks for the update. I wouldn't have gone with Bellm, but hopefully you don't have any of the problems a friend of mine encountered. Your load combination should work very well and give you a 100+ yard gun, if you're comfortable shooting that far with it. Any thoughts on what scope you'll be using?

 

[BugShooter]

I have a Burris 2-7X electro dot that I'm thinking of putting on it.

 

[twodot]

other good powders that come to mind for use in the Max are 4227 and 1680
..

 

[Huntdaddy1]

I've been shooting a 12" Contender in 357 Max. for years and I consider it an absolute deer thumper out to 150 yds. or so. I like the 180 gr. bullets pushed at about 1500fps. or so . HD1

 

[BugShooter]

Very happy w/ the pistol and scope .... until about the 50th shot or so.

Not really sure what it is, but I imagine there is a lead coming down from the top of the scope barrel on top of the cross hair containing the electric circuit that gives the "electro dot" its juice.

That little black stripe is now a little to the side...no longer laying on top of the vertical cross hair, but slightly to one side. And the electro dot light is out.

Argh. The sole purpose of buying the electro dot scope was for early or late shooting opportunities when i might not be able to see the cross hairs.

Still a "good" scope. Just no longer an electro dot.

Now to see how burris stands by their warranty.

 

[broom_jm]

Very happy w/ the pistol and scope .... until about the 50th shot or so.

Not really sure what it is, but I imagine there is a lead coming down from the top of the scope barrel on top of the cross hair containing the electric circuit that gives the "electro dot" its juice.

That little black stripe is now a little to the side...no longer laying on top of the vertical cross hair, but slightly to one side. And the electro dot light is out.

Argh. The sole purpose of buying the electro dot scope was for early or late shooting opportunities when i might not be able to see the cross hairs.

Still a "good" scope. Just no longer an electro dot.

Now to see how burris stands by their warranty.

Burris will take care of you...don't worry. It's not like that round is generating tons of recoil to rattle a scope to pieces. Bummer.

 

[BugShooter]

My thought exactly. Plus, I'm not using max loads either.

I'm wondering if this was a problem with the electro dot as I don't see it offered among their various pistol scopes on their web site.

 

[broom_jm]

Good question...hopefully Burris will straighten it out, either way.

I've only tried a dot sight on a long-range pistol once. It was a 10" Contender barrel in 30 Herrett and even using the smallest dot size, I did not care for it. I really struggled to see the dot unless it was so big that it subtended too much of the target and made precise shooting very difficult. Load development was a nightmare since the best I could possibly hope for was 3" at 100 yards...which is what the dot covered. So, I switched over to an old T/C scope in 2.5X...problem solved.

 

[Scotsman]

On those Red Dots, I think it may be the Manufacturer. I have an Adco Mirage on my .45-410/16" T/C, and I love it, It shows just a infinitesimal red speck, and is quite bright enough for full daylight.

But actually, I have a question on the T/C .357...

I started my collection of T/C back in about 1994, and bought a T/C .357 Mag 10" Octagon Barrel with Forend, at a Gun Show I went to. I have old Catalogs, looked at the new ones online, and I can not find the Model Number for that Barrel, OR, any other evidence that T/C actually had it for sale at some point.
It has all the appropriate T/C stamping on it, but I only find 10" Octagon listed for the .22LR.

Does anyone know what that Barrel Model Number is, or why it is not in the catalogs ?