[deebee]

I was in the pub the other day, discussing weird calibers, and the .357 Maximum came up. I remember it from a G&A article in the late 80's, it was a lengthened .357Magnum and it looked very sleek and pretty. I think it rivaled the .44Mag in muzzle energy, and produced a flatter trajectory, but I'm not sure on that.

What happened to the .357 Maximum? Has it become extinct?

 

[Contender]

Hey there,

The max really hasn't become extinct. However, it's not that popular from a mainstream sense. It got a bad reputation for flame cutting of the topstrap on the Ruger revolvers it was introduced in. Soon after, Ruger discontinued it. It's loaded I think to something like 52,000 CUP or therabouts. That's quite high for a revolver round. The Dan Wesson revolver had the capability to adjust the barrel/cylinder gap so I think it wasn't too much of a problem there.


Speaking about Contender pistols, I'd say it is still in general use at least for the hunting end. Has a good amount of power in a 10" or 12" barrel for hunting. I like the 35 Rem in this application though.

As far as Sillouhettas Metallicas, I'm not sure as to what degree of use it is seeing these days. Perhaps someone in this game can relate more info on it.

You'll find a lot of calibers that are supposed to be dead, maintain a small but loyal following of dedicated fans. At one time the 444 Marlin was supposed to be dead but as you can see here, it is alive and well. That's what makes this all fun.

 

[James Gates]

Boys, wouldn't you like to have a .357 Max in a beefed up little Marlin!
Best Regards, James  

 

[RugerNo3]

Yes ,James, to the Marlin. I think you could closely approach the 35Rem with it. Paco Kelly elaborated on the 357Maximum and the Silouhette shooters played it straight and went for accuracy with heavy bullets. Not much flame cutting, but the hotrodded light weight bullets with the H110 loads wreaked havoc because of the calcium carbonate in the powder and heavier charges of powder. Of course it was developed for the silouhette crowd. NEF chambered it in their SS rifle, but it would be easy to open up a 357Mag and try some Re#7 in it.

 

[Contender]

Hmmmmm.

Now you got me thinking......................

Actually though, If you load the 35 Rem to about 40,000 CUP, It's tough to beat with the increased powder space. The factory 35 Rem ammo is quite anemic due to the fact that it has to work safely with the old auto loaders it was originally meant for and not hammer the heck out of the actions in them. I often wished they had came out with a type of +P loading for the 35 in fixed breach and lever guns. I think the cartridge would then come into it's own.






(Edited by Contender at 11:40 am on Mar. 17, 2001)

 

[James Gates]

Contender...Look at Ken Water's Pet Loads for the .35 Remington! He has loads worked up for bolt guns, etc. I had an early Remington 760 in .35 and loaded some real raunchy stuff with the Speer 180!! If you can't find a copy, I'll get Cissey to mail you one.
Best Regards, James

 

[Contender]

Hey!

Got the two volume set a number of years back. I'll have to go over those loads.

You're giving me a ton of ideas today, my brain is warping!

Thanks, James

 

[Marshall Stanton]

Some years ago, Savage made their model 24 O/U in .357 mag/20 ga.  Not anything to set the world on fire, untill you ran a .357 Maximum chamber reamer through it!   Now, talk about a hotrod little over/under!

There wasn't enough meat in the chamber area to do the .35 Remington, but that little Maximum slides in there slick and sweet!  This little rechamber job took under an hour and let me tell you, the results are very gratifying out of a 24' tube!

Nope, not dead by a long way... just resting up!

God Bless,

Marshall

 

[deebee]

Interesting. So how much longer is the .357Maximum compared to the plain vanilla .357Magnum?

 

[RugerNo3]

deebee, the 357Max has a case length of 1.605 and a COL of 1.990. The 357Mag has a case length of 1.290 and a COL of 1.590. NEF used to chamber this round in that little break action single shot. They still chamber the 357mag. A little chamber work would make this a nice little knock-about gun.

 

[BAGTIC]

Boys, wouldn't you like to have a .357 Max in a beefed up little Marlin!
Best Regards, James

The Marlin does not need to be 'beefed up'. It is plenty strong as is. I know, I have a Marlin that was converted to .357 Maximum. The problem is that the action is too short.

If the action was long enough I suspect that the Marlin would be able to handle the .223 or 35/223 wildcat.

 

[William Iorg]

I well remember the G&A article. The gunwriter (Milleck) was a hunter, not a silhouette shooter and he did not understand the cartridge nor its intended purpose. Everyone I knew was very disappointed to see the loading of the light for the caliber bullets. The cartridge was never intended to be used with 125-grain bullets driven to warp speed.
I shoot the 357 Maximum in the Thompson Contender using 180- grain and heavier bullets. Prior to this I shot the 357 Herrett (I have two barrels for this cartridge) and the Maximum is considerably easier to load. The 357 Maximum is a good cartridge which was not helped by Gunwriters who did not nderstand it or the silhouette game. The same could be said of the 32 H&R Magnum, the gunwriters who knew the “Super .32 cartridge” before it was introduced - Dean Grennell, Ken Waters, Lee Jurras, and others who championed the cartridge after its introduction such as Skeeter Skelton (it took him a few months to warm up to it) and Rick Jamison. The tone of the first articles sets the tone and these early mistakes with the 357 Maximum sealed its fate.

 

[Goatwhiskers]

The Max is one heck of a game cartridge out to 200yds or so using heavy (180-200gr) bullets. The guys over at Graybeard have a deal where you can rent the reamer and rework a mag Handi to a Max and have a fine little rifle. I have a Cadet Martini that was a Mag when I got it. Shooting cast GC 190gr. bullets I'm getting around 2000fps from a 24" 1 in 16" barrel, heavy charge of A1680 Best group is 9/16" at 50 yds., haven't tried longer yet. It's well worth having one if Remington will keep making brass. Goatwhiskers

 

[broom_jm]

Holy Resurrections, Batman! An 11 year-old thread, brought back to life!

The 357 MAX is still alive and well, as a legal deer hunting cartridge in states with PCR regulations.

 

[crossfire]

I well remember the G&A article. The gunwriter (Milleck) was a hunter, not a silhouette shooter and he did not understand the cartridge nor its intended purpose. Everyone I knew was very disappointed to see the loading of the light for the caliber bullets. The cartridge was never intended to be used with 125-grain bullets driven to warp speed..

While I agree that Mr. Milek didn't understand the intentions of the cartridge; Ruger must also take some of the blame for producing an inferior revolver. The Ruger had the shortest throats of any of the .357 Maximum revolvers and, combined with the operating pressures of the cartridge, unexpectedly accelerated the top strap cutting. Of course, Ruger is never wrong so it had the be entirely the fault of the Maximum despite the fact that the Dan Wesson was much less prone to severe cutting and the Seville barely showed any signs at all. To make matters worse, powder manufacturers immediately reduced maximum load pressures by 10% and further handicapped the cartridge by restricting overall length to 1.99" for a revolver that not only was no longer in production but factory recalled. SAAMI has gone even further and recently reduced maximum pressures to 40 kpsi.

 

[William Iorg]

I certainly agree, Ruger and SAAMI did not help! Part of the problem was their jealousy of Elgin Gates and the NIH “Not Invented Here” syndrome.

 

[Big Bore]

And people laughed at Hornady for making Zombi ammo. This thread alone is proof that the dead can indeed rise and walk the earth again, almost like the .357 Maximum.

 

[crossfire]

S&W took notice even though they ridiculed the Maximum at the time. The .500 S&W Magnum is nothing more than a slightly revised .500 SuperMag.