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Hello from Scotland

Reading an old article some years ago in a British gun magazine the writer sung the praise of the .358 as a fantastic woods calibre. I believe Browning made the A-bolt and BLR in .358 and also savage ? I have not seen .358 listed or advertised any where ?
Does any one still make .358 ? On paper it looks an excellant cartridge so why has appeared to vanish ?

Regards Englander
 

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The 358 unfortunately came out during the crazy American "magnumitis" era.  If it didn't say 7mm Mag, or 300 Win Mag or some such, no one wanted it.
That was most unfortunate, because it was, and is, a great short/medium range cartridge that would work through short actions and handle anything on the North American Continent.  I can't think of an American Company that currently chambers it.  When Remington legitimized the 35 Whelen, even though it's on the longer 30-06 case, that sort of dealt the crushing blow.  Who knows though?  A poll taken about three months ago showed the current favorite American cartridges to be the 30-06 and the 45-70( based on new sales).  I've been shooting the 45-70 for 9 years now, and there's been a strong surge of interest in many of the forums I visit in many of the fine older cartridges such as the 38-55, 375 Winchester, 356 winchester( a rimmed 358), 405 Win(just re-introduced) etc.  The 358 also gets mentioned as a round that several folks have had made in customized rifles.  I had one in the Savage 99 and like an idiot sold it.  Love your country by the way.  Passed through it several times, and except for getting rolled in Glasgow, thoroughly enjoyed the country and the hospitality.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Joel

Thanks for the reply, yes they have some strange customs in Glasgow ! My self as a Englishman would'nt go into parts after dark as there is a strong division between Catholics and protestants.
You mentioned the Savage 99 ? was chambered in .358 what else ? My reason for asking is it "might" be possible to find a second hand example over here of course it my be easier to find a live Haggis !

Regards Englander
 

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I'm not so sure that it was merely a case of magnumitis.  After all the superb 358 Norma Magnum failed to reach any popularity here in the states.  The Norma chambering had a couple of things going against it, one was Winchester's 338.  The 338 and 358 were closely matched, but there were really not many suitable bullets for the 358 and several good ones for the Winchester.  It didn't help the Norma that it was not American manufacture either.  I suppose the 358 Winchester failed for some of the same reasons, it didn't really do anymore or any less than something that already existed.  I don't think the shooting public at that time had the expendable income that most shooters have today and to alot of people one gun that handled the game they hunted was enough.  It's true that the flatter shooting cartridges were the biggest sellers at that time, as they are today.  By and large the 30/06, 270, 7mm's, 300's, 308 and such are the life blood of the industry.  The exceptions seem to be the 30-30 and 45/70.  Don't forget, the time the 358 came out the public was largely enthralled with flashy, Hollywood type things.  The 358 was a workhorse of a cartridge, but not as dramatic as a Weatherby or some other magnum.  It just did what it did very very well.  However, it really didn't do anything that could not be done with an '06, 270, 7 Mag, 300 Mag, or 30-30.  It wasn't rooted tradition the way the 30-30 was, nor did it have the military blessing of the '06 or 308, and was chambered in short range brush busting rifles at a time when the industry was trying to dispell the "brush busting myth".  The 358 Win saw a rise in popularity several years back when quite a few custom gun makers began chambering bolt actions for them, but without good strong factory loads and the introduction of the 35 Whelen, interest just kinda died.  Too bad, it is a good cartridge for suited conditions.  Will it do something that much better than another more popular round?  I don't think so, but it is good.
 

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A few 99 Savages, Browning BLR, Winchester 88 in short action levers.  Win model 70, and i am thinking the ruger 77 were as well, once upon a time.  

all that come to mind this minute.  

Steve
 

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Early Ruger 77's were available in .358 and .350 Remington magnum.  Remington made one of their limited edition 700 Classics in .358.  A fair number of European makers chambered rifles in .358 but called it the 8.8X51mm.  It remained popular in Europe longer than it did in the States.  
I had a later model Ruger 77R in .308 rebarelled to .358 (an easy conversion).
 

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Until recently I owned 3 rifles in .358 caliber; a Marlin 336ER in 356 Win., a Browning BLR-81 in 358 Win. and a Ruger 77 in 358 Win.  I sold the Marlin 336ER and the Ruger 77 and got enough money to buy a new Marlin 336 Cowboy in 38-55, a new Marlin 1894S in 44 Magnum/Special and a new Ruger Vaquero in 44 Mag with a 5 1/2" SS bbl.

I regret selling those two otstanding rifles but the proceeds of said sale allowed me to "gear up" for Cowboy Action Shooting.

NITRO

NRA LIFE
SASS
 

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Nitro & Joel, you spoke of the 356 Win.
Is it still possible to get brass & dies easily enough for this round?
I presume it takes a standard .35 cal bullet.
Nitro, were you reloading or buying factory ammo for the Marlin 336ER?
At the moment I'm looking for a viable .35 to .375 cal round to have a custom martini rifle built in but it has to be a rimmed cartridge to work.
 

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I am looking for a 336ER in .356win right now. I also am kicking around the notion of picking up another 35REM and having the .358 conversion done.
 

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Hey guys
Browning does offer the BLR in 358W again.
Check it out on the web site.
The new BLR has also returned to the older design straight stock. I am saving up the coin to buy one now
 

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I've often wondered why North American hunters have never really acepted most 35 calibers. The .358 is often thought of as a "brush gun" but zero'd for 200 yards with 200 gr. Hornady spire point, it is hitting about 8.5 inches low at 300 yards. While certainly no .270, this is still a vieable plains cartridge for the hunter who can estimate distances well.

In 1979, Savage built a special edition model 99 in .358 that would be competitive to today's "Guide Guns". Features included straight stock, short barrel, and vented recoil pad. Yet hunters and gun writers yawned in responce and this fine rifle faded.

The good news is that a competant smith can build
a .358 from just about any short action. With some rifles re-barreling is all that's needed. But with others, magazines need modifications.
TR
 

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The .356 & .358 winchesters use the same dies. Brass is still easy enough to get for either, check out the Midway website for example. I sold my Winchester 94 Big Bore in .356 win years ago and now I'm finding out how few there are for sale & how much they seem to be going for $$$! The .375 winchester seems to be more plentiful so I may be picking up one of those soon. There are a few Ruger 77s in .358 win (around $800-1200), even fewer pre-'64 Model 70 Win in that caliber ($2000+ if you can find them), I haven't seen more than one or two of the Winchester Model 88 or Savage 99 in .358. I am glad someone is still chambereing it (Browning)! Like the Barnes reloading manual says: The .358 winchester packs more punch per grain of powder than just about anything.
 

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Hi everybody,i couldn`t help but notice all the talking goin on about the 358, so i figured i`d check it out. I read about the browning BAR, so does this mean the factory will make new ammo? I hope so. I saw a 358 in a win m-88, last weekend at a gunshow, and the price tag said $2,400. Sounds high i know, but last year i saw one sell for $2,500, at a show near Pittsburgh,PA ! I`ve never seen a model 70.
 

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I think the only factory option is the 200 grain Win Silvertip. I have a few boxes of it, and I don't think that they have dropped it from production.

I personally think this load is a little "Soft" for the bigger stuff, and would sure look into rolling your own if you have an interest in this wonderful cartridge/ rifle combination.

Good luck.

Steve
 

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whitehunter35 said:
I think the only factory option is the 200 grain Win Silvertip. I have a few boxes of it, and I don't think that they have dropped it from production.

I personally think this load is a little "Soft" for the bigger stuff, and would sure look into rolling your own if you have an interest in this wonderful cartridge/ rifle combination.

Good luck.

Steve
This is a good caliber no doubt, but one MUST obtain good premium bullets for hunting big game in the field. One example was in Canada going after black bear a couple of years ago. Two guys showed up with .358 lever guns! They had handloaded their shells themselves with Sierra bullets, far to soft to do any good on bear.

I watched these men shoot into split birch logs from about 30 yards. Those bullets penetrated about 3 inch of soft birch and fragmented in to at least 5 separate pieces. I have one on my reloading bench down stairs as a reminder to their mistake. Birch wood is softer than pine for those who don't know the difference.

Well, comes time to go bear hunting and they are fortunate enough to have a 450 pound black bear walk into the bait barrel. The first hunter (they were paired up together) cuts loose with his .358 lever gun and that bore blacky spun around growling and jaws a popping as he came barreling up the hill at them, after being hit in the side. They then proceed to unload on this bear as it passed them broadside at about 25 yards, making a bee line into the thickets.

Needless to say, they lost that great bear! All because they were to proud to admit, they just didn't have the proper bullets for the job they undertook to get done. One guy complained afterwards that the .358 just is NOT the caliber to hunt bears with in the wild. I disagreed with him! He offered me the rifle at a bargin price, however I didn't feel right about taking the gun or advantage of his lack of knowledge. I told him to just make sure next time out, your rifle is loaded with a good premium bullets.
 

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What sort of muzzle velocity are you guys getting out of the .356 Win & what sort of point blank range is reasonable?
I planning on having a 26" barrel on my martini custom.

Cheers & God Bless
Andy P
 

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As mentioned, Browning does chamber the 358 Winchester again. Ruger and Remington make the 350 Rem. mag again. There is still only one loading for the 358, a 200 grain bullet. I made a 358 on a model 70 action with a Shilen barrel. It shoots a 225 grain Sierra or Nosler BT around 2400 fps and shoots them within an inch at 100. I've only killed two deer with it so far but only because I own around 16 "deer" rifles!

Bob257
 

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Bob257 said:
As mentioned, Browning does chamber the 358 Winchester again. Ruger and Remington make the 350 Rem. mag again. There is still only one loading for the 358, a 200 grain bullet. I made a 358 on a model 70 action with a Shilen barrel. It shoots a 225 grain Sierra or Nosler BT around 2400 fps and shoots them within an inch at 100. I've only killed two deer with it so far but only because I own around 16 "deer" rifles!

Bob257
Bob,
It sounds like have an excellent .358 win rifle there. Around 16 deer rifles? Sweet! I have aspirations of a collection like that! (I started it off with a .338-06-not a bad start).

If Ruger chambers the .350 Rem Mag again they're keeping it a big secret! I can't find any info on it at all. I hope it's true 'cause there's a bunch of us that would line up to buy one. I applaud Remington for bringing back the .350 Rem Mag but the package it is in isn't real attractive with the shark-fin sight blade, vent rib & laminated stock. A previous post referred to the Browning BAR in .358 win, that would be a good setup but I think they only offer it in the BLR.
c
 

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Bob is right! Ruger is chambering the .350 Rem Mag in the Model 77 Markll. Davidson's has a listing for it and under "quantity" is says "allocated" which they define as:
"An allocated item is one in which the demand far exceeds the supply. This means Davidson’s will sell all of this product in less than one week, and many times in only a matter of hours." So I still don't know how we can actually buy one - but it's a start. Now if they'll offer us a Ruger #1 in .338-06!
c
 

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Ruger makes a lot of sense doesn't it.... their marketing heads must stay up late at night figuring out what limited production-run gun will become an instant collector's item! Sheesh, have something in such hot demand that people are waiting in line to buy them, and only produce enough product to say you made them! Yet another example of the public's awareness of the effectiveness of the .35's and their appetite for quality, practical hunting rifles in .35 caliber, and the manufacturers' deaf ear and eye turned to the consumer.

I'll be interested if anyone on these forums actually manages to procure one of those M77MKII's in .350 Rem.!!!

Ok. I'm done ranting.

God Bless,
 
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