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I am wanting some load data or ideas for .358 Win and barnes 225 gr X bullet. I am using a Browning BLR.
 

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The Barnes Manual No. 2 shows:

IMR 4895 starting at 46 gr. to 50 gr.

Win748 start at 50 gr to 54 gr

Primers are WLR

Cases W-W

dclark
 

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Sleeper
My Savage 99 likes 49.0 grains of BLC2 witha 225 grain Nosler BT. This is a MAX load in my gun so start under and work up if you try it. I load it in W-W SUPER cases withCCI200 primers.
 

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358 Win and 180 grain X-Bullet

I have a box of .358" 180 grain X-Bullets but no Barnes maunal. Any favorite loads for this bullet in a 20" barreled BLR?

My favorite whitetail load is:
Hornady .358" 200 grain spire point
49.0 grains IMR3031
Once fired WW cases
Win WLR primer
Moderate crimp in cannelure

From a BLR with 20" barrel: 2617 fps / 3042 fpe

This is a max compressed load so start at 44 grains and work up in 1 grain increments.
 

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Sleeper & Nitro,
I've been trying a few different bullets in my .35 Whelen this summer and have come to a few conclusions about the X-bullet through some expansion testing. This might be something for you to consider. Ultra Premium bullets are designed to give optimum performance at velocities much higher than what the .358 produces, yet still expand at about where the .358 leaves off at 100-150 yards. Don't get me wrong, the X is a great bullet that I use frequently, but it seems to be a waste of money in the slower cartridges. The other issue is that at the velocities you're attaining, the bullet may fail to expand at 200 yards. If you're shooting at deer, I'd use the Hornady 200gr Spire Point, if something bigger the 250gr SP or RN. If you do the math on the difference between the RN, which I know will open at reduced velocities, and the SP, you'd take the RN every time out to 300 yds. The 180gr Barnes doesn't really shoot any faster than the 200gr spire point and the difference in trajectory could never be realized in the field, so I'd save my money for shooting with a bullet that will more likely open at extended ranges and is more than capable of holding together up close. I've stopped using X-bullets in lower velocity rounds because it's not as likely they'll open up if you have to strech a shot to 250- 300yds, and there is no need for them in order to have excellent performance at anything closer. Just my $.02 There is also the Nosler Partition, which in my opinion and experience, would be a far better choice for the .358 than the x-bullet. The Partition usually shoots better to boot!
 

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Being such a short cartridge, powder space in the .358 is at a premium. The Barnes X bullet (which I love) is longer than the same weight Nosler partition and intrudes into the powder space more, given the same overall cartridge length. I chose the 225 grain Nosler partition bullet for my .358 to give me just a bit more powder space.
 

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What the rest of them said. The .358 Win is not exactly a screaming banshee of a catridge and I think I would just stick to regular bullets. Don't think that you have much chance of blowing them up when you can only run 2400-2500fps at the muzzle.
 

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Gentlemen,

I tend to agree that Barnes X is a good choice for the fast movers, but I do also think that they have some utility for the moderate velocity cartridges as well.

I do think that a 358 Win, 225 Barnes would be a first rate Pig/ bear rifle, and the BLR platform would make it just about the ideal for hunting behind hounds. Reckon at even moderate velocities a fellow would get the requisite penetration/ expansion and would not have to worry so much about grissle plates or shoulder bones. It would surely be quite a thumper.

I talked to Barnes a few months ago, about the possibility of a 210 grain 375 x bullet in 375 win, and they let me know that the expansion threshold was around 1600 fps. If that is the case, this combination would be interesting indeed. I have also found that if I use a powder like W748, I can seat the bullet deeper and not intrude on usable fuel space.

My favorite load for my BLR is the 225 grain Sierra, just because it shoots the best, but I have not taken thie rifle out after the tougher beasties as of yet. I will sure look at that Barnes Load when I do.

Good shooting,

Steve
 

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Interesting. Anything I have read on the 'X' including some penetration tests into wet newsprint and the like indicates a good 2,000fps needed for reliable expansion with the X. But - this was for the spitzers. The X bullets which are used in the .30-30 (PMC loads them I think) have a much larger opening on the hollow-point, of course to keep the bullet nose from hitting the primer of the round in front of it in the mag tube. So if they have a .375 bullet just for the .38-55 & .375 Win then it might could be of that configuration and have the lower expansion velocity.

Hunting with hounds, distances should be short, and likely you would never have any issues with lack of expansion in a .358 Win. It would be a good bullet for when you may have to take a shot quickly at an angle that is not ideal.
 

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Mike,

Actually, I should have talked about the 375 issue in a little more detail to avoid confusion. My 375 is a savage 99, so I plan to use the 210 spitzers, and develop it when i have time to get around to it. It was my reasoning, like yours, that it would quickly reach a point of diminshing returns if the expansion threshold was 2000 or so, if the thing started out at 2300 or 2250.

I was a little surprised when the Barnes guy wrote me that the expansion threshold was around 1600, because I was thinking that they were harder than that. Well, I guess that Barnes is business to sell bullets.

There is not much else in the way of Premium bullets that a fellow can land hands upon, 375 Win wise, so I have high hopes for it. The matter at this point is pure conjecture, and I would like to see some of the data that you have, to make the most informed decision as practical.

Thanks for the info.

Steve
 

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Whitehunter,
if there was a thin jacket, bonded core, .375 bullet available, would you buy it? It would perform over a much wider parameter than an X. Would a small flat point discourage you from using such a bullet, as a result of ballistic concerns?
I like the X-bullets, but I believe a good bonded core bullet with a jacket that doesn't prohibit expansion would be the better choice between 0-200yds.
 

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Steve, the person at Barnes may not have been entirely wrong - but - there could be more to the story. Yes, the bullet might start to expand at 1600fps. You could get the nose petals to peel back a little bit. Technically, that's expansion.

What I have read suggested that if the nose petals didn't fully expand, the problem was that the center of gravity is too far back, and the base of the bullet can pass the front, leading to an erratic wound channel. Sort of like a FMJ. Seyfried has written about this before, even though he really likes the "X" in high velocity rifles. Mentions that sometimes they exit the side of the bullet testing medium when the velocity is deliberatly held too low. I will have to see if I can find the articles.

Nothing against the "X" bullet, don't get me wrong. It's a great solution for many problems. But I believe it is not a good choice for the lower-velocity rounds.

Now.... one last thought. Barnes has their "Original" bullet which is a lot softer than the "X", and I'd certainly believe that it would start to expand at 1600fps.

Looking at the data in the Barnes #1 manual, they only show loads for their "Original" bullet for the .38-55 and .375 Win. I don't have the latest Barnes manual, so no idea if it suggest using the "X" in those cartridges.
 

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One last thought. The data in the Barnes #1 manual shows only a little over 2,000fps in the .375 Win, with the 220gr. bullet. Even if it turns out that you get good expansion all the way down to 1600fps with an "X" bullet, I think that you would be below 1600fps not much past 100 yards.
 

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Barnes #3 Manual

The #3 manual shows loads for 38-55 & .375 WIN with "Old style" bullets. It also shows .358 WIn with "X" bullets. The testing "expert" (first page of loading data) says "For me, the .358 Win has proved to be an impressive killer, and loaded with X-bullets, it achieves yet another threshold of lethality."

This guy, Nick Calco from bigbores.com uses a Browning BLR, .358WIN and reccommends 47gr. of IMR4895 with the 225 gr X-bullet for2400fps.(Book maximum is 50gr. for 2557fps.) FOR GOD SAKES, WORK UP TO THIS AND CHECK YOUR OWN PRESSURE.

The Barnes load for 180gr, .358WIN, XFlat Base, IMR4198 is;
Starting load: 40gr for 2586fps.
Maximum load: 44gr for 2845fps.
WORK UP, FROM 10% BELOW, AND CHECK YOUR OWN PRESSURE!!!
(The loads here are for .358WIN, -NOT- 38-55 or.375WIN!!!)

Personally, I've used the Originals in .257 AI, .270WIN, and 30-06. They were hard to get before the 'X' came along. Might be impossible now.

Two things; I could never get any better than 1 1/4" groups with any load, and don't hit any part you plan to eat. I've never seen destruction and penetration to match. Luckily, I still have a couple boxes of each caliber hoarded.

Bud
 

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Barnes .358" X and .377" O

Bud,

Thanks for the load data from the Barnes #3 loading manual for the 180 gr X-bullet in the .358 Win. I also have a box of 255 grain flat point .377" Barnes Originals for the 38-55. Would you please post the loading info for this bullet and indicate the firearm used and the barrel length. I will be shooting these bullets in a Marlin 336CB with a 24" barrel.

Thanks in advance,

nitro
 

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Hey Nitro,

Barnes#3 shows highest velocity with RL 7 for 250gr. Original(NOT 255gr).

Starting load: 23gr. for 1486 fps
Maximum load: 27gr. for 1745 fps

Barnes does not show pressures. They do speak of the 'older' rifles (presumed low tensile strength) chambered for this cartridge. The Marlin 336 Cow Boy is modern steel and will stand up to 40,000 CUP.

Hodgdon #27 shows two loads only for 38-55, 255gr BarnesOriginal.

H322
Starting load: 27gr of H322 for 1603fps at 25,500CUP
Max load: 33gr of H322 for 1830fps at 28,200CUP

H4198
Starting load: 24gr of H4198 for 1554fps at 21,400CUP
Max load: 28gr of H4198 for1788fps at 26,700CUP

These loads,according to Hodgon #27, used Winchester cases, CCI 200 primers. They were fired in a 24" barrel with 1:18" twist.
*

If it were me, using a modern steel, Marlin CB, I'd CAREFULLY work up warmer loads while paying close attention to pressure signs. I have .44MAG Marlins, 45-70 Marlins, and one .444 Marlin. All work above, so-called, 'Trapdoor' velocities and pressures. I run my.44MAG Marlins at 37,000+ CUP(which is below maximum).

By the way, if you're using a Powley computer, Win. 38-55 cases hold 52.27 gr of water. Be careful and good luck.

Bud
 

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NITRO said:
I have a box of .358" 180 grain X-Bullets but no Barnes maunal. Any favorite loads for this bullet in a 20" barreled BLR?

My favorite whitetail load is:
Hornady .358" 200 grain spire point
49.0 grains IMR3031
Once fired WW cases
Win WLR primer
Moderate crimp in cannelure

From a BLR with 20" barrel: 2617 fps / 3042 fpe

This is a max compressed load so start at 44 grains and work up in 1 grain increments.
NITRO,
I have tested the .358 180 gr. X bullet in my BLR. I worked up to a max. load of 53 grs. H-BLC lot #2 for 2701 fps. Accuracy was on the order of 2" at 100 yards. This was a max load in my rifle so work up with caution!
Too darned expensive, so went back to my standard RCBS cast 200 grain FN. :)--JDL
 

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The authority of the 358 is based on a medium bore with medium weight bullets and medium sectional densities traveling at medium velocities. It is therefore, not extreme in any way and very predictable.

I would keep the bullet terminal performance predictable too, and avoid premium bullets with the possible exception of the Nosler Partition.
 
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