358 Winchester

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roseman

Discussion Starter · Apr 4, 2017

I am considering the purchase of a rifle in .358 Winchester. I have no experience with this cartridge but have a lot of interest in it.
What can I expect for performance from handloads in the 225-250 gr range.

Thanks in advance.

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recoil junky

· #21 · Apr 9, 2017

I need to get out my Speer ballistic calculator sliderule and keep it by the computer. Handy little thing from a bygone era.

225's are going to run in the 2400 fps range so should yield (just guessing) 15-1600 lb ft of energy. 250's in the 2250 fps range and (still guessing) about the same energy.

RJ

Tnhunter

· #22 · Apr 10, 2017

A 225gr load at 2500 FPS WILL have over 3100 FPE at the muzzle and 1500 FPE at 350 yards. (Sierra 225gr SPBT)

recoil junky

· #23 · Apr 10, 2017

As I said, I was just guessing . . . . . badly it would appear

Thanks for the clarification Tnhunter.

RJ

MS 9x56

· #24 · Jul 16, 2020

roseman said:
I like the Savage 99 rifles and I'm looking to add one with a bit more oomph as the .308 is the largest I own now.

The 358 is reAlly a niche caliber. If you hunt where the property is surrounded by posted land and you need to keep your deer from running far. This is your caliber. If you hunt where you have the opportunity to shoot multiple game species some of which can be big and mean. This is your caliber. If you want to use something different than everyone else in camp. This is your caliber. If you like both entrance and exit holes this is your caliber. If you like copious blood trails Ray Charles could follow this is your caliber. If you want a 358 enough said. I have a 35 rem,a 358 win, a 9x56 MS, a 35 whelen. This is the choir speaking go forth and get your 358 and enjoy DRT.

MS 9x56

· #25 · Jul 16, 2020

recoil junky said:
I'm leaning towards the Sierra 200 grain RN. In testing (wet clay behind my target board) I've found the Hornady to be a bit "over jacketed" in that the bullet doesn't expand well at my velocity. No doubt it would dispatch a critter if I chose to do so, but I want to try the Sierras before I go there.

RJ

Try the 200 GrainGER it is devastating on deer and Hogs.

MS 9x56

· #26 · Jul 16, 2020

roseman said:
Performance as in ballistics; ft/sec and ft/lbs.

If that is truly what you want get a 358 Norma. If performance on game is what you are interested in any 35 caliber rifle will give you that in spades.

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TRexF16

· #27 · Jul 17, 2020 (Edited by Moderator)

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Tnhunter

· #28 · Jul 17, 2020 (Edited by Moderator)

TRexF16 said:
*** I use this in my savage 99.
Run the numbers in a ballistics calculator and you'll be impressed. That 200 TTSX is slippery.
Penetration for days. Shoots flat and hard.
Good luck,
Rex

An excellent example of a "modern" .358 Win load. This load flies as flat as a typical 180gr 06 load (180gr/2700). And, as a matter of comparison, it's also slightly faster than the Remington .35 Whelen 200gr Core Lokt and flies much flatter. With a 200yd zero, it's about 8" low at 300. This ain't your Granddad's Buick.....LOL.

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recoil junky

· #29 · Jul 17, 2020

Looking at on line data for "modern'" 358 Winchester loads, those suggested are WAY more than I would subject MY M99f to.

Risking your life and limbs is one thing, but body parts of those next to you? Uuuh, no!

RJ

white eagle

· #30 · Jul 21, 2020

I am considering the purchase of a rifle in .358 Winchester. I have no experience with this cartridge but have a lot of interest in it.
What can I expect for performance from handloads in the 225-250 gr range.

you can expect to drop any animal that you shoot where you should
it hits with more authority than it's small meek demeanor would lead you to believe
power and performance in a small package does it get any better?

MS 9x56

· #31 · Jul 21, 2020

white eagle said:
I am considering the purchase of a rifle in .358 Winchester. I have no experience with this cartridge but have a lot of interest in it.
What can I expect for performance from handloads in the 225-250 gr range.

you can expect to drop any animal that you shoot where you should
it hits with more authority than it's small meek demeanor would lead you to believe
power and performance in a small package does it get any better?

The 358 winchester is a lot more versatile that people give it credit for. The reason you don't find them used on gun store racks is that once a person aquires one they dont turn loose of it. They have killed everything I have pointed them at with very short copious blood trails. I dont think they kick any worse than my savage 99 in 308. Get one and you will be happy, Happy, HAPPY.

JBelk

· #32 · Jul 21, 2020

Using that definition of 'performance', maybe consider a .350 G&H Magnum. It is case capacity/bore diameter that determines that 'performance'. The bigger the case, the more 'performance' you get.

Bandito

· #33 · Jul 27, 2020

I think the performance you can expect is dead game, DED dead! I think it shoots flatter than my 33 winchester and hits harder than my 308s. Some could argue against that but I never had to chase a deer I hit even with just a bulk buy Remington 200 gr SP or the FPs I bought by the big box full years ago from Midway. Hi. My name is Bandito and I am a medium bore whore. G'Day and Be Well, Bandito.

358 Win

· #34 · 9 mo ago

I'm a 35 caliber kind of guy. I'm 70 years old and have fourteen 35 caliber rifles ranging from .357 Magnum up to .350 Rem Mag. My favorites are my three 358 Winchesters. I've taken 20 Pennsylvania Whitetails with my 358's. Seventeen of them dropped at the shot and three had to be tracked maybe 25 yards each. I'm color blind and tracking is not my forte but shooting is. My favorite 358 Win is a rechambered Remington 760 pump carbine that was originally a 35 Rem from 1979. Most of my reloads are just under 2400fps in that carbine and absolute death on our Pennsylvania Whitetail deer when using a 200 grain round nose bullet.
358 Win

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Kosh75287

· #35 · 9 mo ago

As years have passed, my "need" for a fast-handling .358 lever action has gone its way. My "WISH" for one never has, but there were too many other firearms I needed, first.
I hear from persons more experienced than me that the "levering" in the Savage M99 is not as smooth as one might expect from, say, a Marlin 336 or a Winchester M1894. I got that impression from the one I shot for a summer (in .243), but it was all but NIB when I used it. I probably ran 240 rounds through it that summer. Its operation "smoothed out" somewhat.
Subjectively, the .284 Winchester BLR fielded by an associate seemed to operate smoother, but it was neither new nor in the same caliber. It seemed to me that the BLR enabled better/quicker sight acquisition, but neither the scopes nor their mounts seemed similar.
I ran 10 shots through a Winchester M1895 (repro) in .30-06. Five from a bench (uncomfortable), five from standing (LESS uncomfortable). I think I would have grown to like it.
Except at gun shows, I've never touched a Winchester M88, nor a Henry "Long Ranger". Based on what I DO know, I'D probably want my (theoretical) "fast-handling" lever-action .358 to be a BLR, Savage M99, or (possibly) a rebarreled Henry "Long Ranger".

In ANY case, LONG LIVE the .358 WINCHESTER!

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Kevinbear

· #36 · 9 mo ago

I've had mixed results with the 358 Winchester, first off I've had a bunch of 35 caliber guns, 357 magnum, 351self loading, 357maximum, 35 remington, 358 Winchester, 350 remington magnum and 35 whelen.
358 is probably one of the most versatile cartridges ever made because of the wide range and types of bullets available, I loaded cast pistol bullets down to 400fps all the way up to jacketed hollow points at 2700fps, 200gr bullets to 250 at appropriate velocities.
That range of hunting bullet/weights I found to be problematic, I had several spectacular bullet failures.
Case in point, one would think that the Hornady 250 round nose would kill just about anything right? Well I shot an elk and a good sized mule deer with that bullet and neither one exited on broadside shots, the bullets disintegrated just a few inches inside on both. The deer expired almost instantly but it took 3 days to find the elk, not good.
The first animal I ever killed with a 358 was a pronghorn antelope, I got the rifle from E.R. Shaw a couple of days before the hunt so I used Winchester factory 200gr silver tips, same thing, bullet blew up and never exited on a 125lb animal shot at almost 200yds.
It would seem that other than Nosler partitions and Hot core every other 358 bullet was designed for 35 remington velocities.
Now this was quite a while ago before the advent of wonder bullets we have today and there wasn't much in the way of homogenous copper alloy bullets then either.
In reflection I wish I still had the rifle because it was crazy accurate and a joy to shoot especially with cast pistol bullets.
Barnes makes a bunch of triple x bullets in 358 now which would be great in the 358, I'm skeptical of anyone else's bullets.
I had good luck with the 225gr Nosler ballistic tip in my Whelen, but it was too long for the magazine of my 358.

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Tnhunter

· #37 · 9 mo ago

Kosh75287 said:
As years have passed, my "need" for a fast-handling .358 lever action has gone its way. My "WISH" for one never has, but there were too many other firearms I needed, first.
I hear from persons more experienced than me that the "levering" in the Savage M99 is not as smooth as one might expect from, say, a Marlin 336 or a Winchester M1894. I got that impression from the one I shot for a summer (in .243), but it was all but NIB when I used it. I probably ran 240 rounds through it that summer. Its operation "smoothed out" somewhat.
Subjectively, the .284 Winchester BLR fielded by an associate seemed to operate smoother, but it was neither new nor in the same caliber. It seemed to me that the BLR enabled better/quicker sight acquisition, but neither the scopes nor their mounts seemed similar.
I ran 10 shots through a Winchester M1895 (repro) in .30-06. Five from a bench (uncomfortable), five from standing (LESS uncomfortable). I think I would have grown to like it.
Except at gun shows, I've never touched a Winchester M88, nor a Henry "Long Ranger". Based on what I DO know, I'D probably want my (theoretical) "fast-handling" lever-action .358 to be a BLR, Savage M99, or (possibly) a rebarreled Henry "Long Ranger".

In ANY case, LONG LIVE the .358 WINCHESTER!

I've owned both a M99 and M88 in .308 and a BLR steel receiver in .358, as well as BLRs in 4 or 5 other chamberings. For me, the steel receiver BLR in .358 is by far the smoother cycling and smoothest cycling lever rifle I've ever "run". My "collection" at one time has included a baker's dozen Marlins from 30-30 to .450 and 4 or 5 M94 Wins.

The BLR .358 has a shorter stroke to go along with it's smoother cycling action. With a little practice, you'll be amazed how quickly you can cycle and dry fire the action 5 times. It's truly remarkable .

It's no easy task to find a steel receiver BLR in .358 in excellent condition these days, but if you happen upon one, you'll enjoy owning it. 👍

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gssixgun

· #38 · 9 mo ago

Not a 358 win but I shoot a 35 Whelen

Just a heads up that Barnes did have some .358 TSX 225 grain in stock last week, you might check and see if they still do

Good Luck

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nsb

· #39 · 9 mo ago

Any bullet that works in the 35 Whelen will work in the 358 Winchester. I don’t understand any confusion on this. I also don’t believe a sample size of one (1) is enough to draw any conclusions. I haven’t found any shortcomings with the 358 Win when used with bullets designed for .35 caliber rifle use. I’ve shot a few (not a big sample size) with 180g HotCores and they performed quite well. One did not exit at a measured 237 yards, but the internal damage was extreme. The mushroomed bullet was under the hide on the off-side.

Kevinbear

· #40 · 9 mo ago (Edited)

Everyone has there own idea about such things but just like archery any bullet that doesn't get full penetration leaving an exit wound to bleed and facilitate a blood trail to follow I consider an inexcusable failure. I had more than a couple of those with 358 win and 35 whelen.
I shot a average size whitetail buck at my brothers farm out in Kansas one year, he was less than 200yds and straight on looking at me. I put a Nosler 225gr ballistic tip dead center in his chest with a 35 whelen, he dropped instantly, dead before he hit the ground. I don't know how many animals I've made that exact same shot on with various cartridges using 7mm 140gr bt and 6.5 120gr bt bullets but a bunch. With some careful searching I can usually find a ballistic tip in either one of those calibers somewhere down in the south end, either in a ham or the intestines. The bullet mushroomed but losing about 50% of it's weight but lots of penetration like over 2ft, seen it enough times to consider that normal. Out of all the game I've shot with those two ballistic tips only once have I ever seen either one fail to fully penetrate on a broadside shot at that was because of the distance.
That 35 cal 225gr ballistic tip shelled the entire core on a lightweight light boned medium size game animal, no lead left in the core.
After that I settled on the Nosler 225gr partition, it was dependable and always produced good sized exit holes with either the 358win or the Whelen.
I see that bullet listed at 92.00 a box of 50, that's ridiculous for a deer/elk hunting bullet.
Barnes makes a plethora of triple shock bullets now in 35 caliber, if I still had a 358 that's what I'd be using, no doubts about their effectiveness and prices are reasonable.
Don't read into this that I dislike the 35 caliber cartridges, I think they're great with the right bullets and I write this as a precaution to folks wanting a rifle in that caliber.
For whatever reason some people have not experienced the same issues I've had, I call them like I see them.
These might be a fantastic deer bullet.
Barnes Triple-Shock X (TSX) Bullets 35 Cal (358 Diameter) 180 Grain (midwayusa.com)

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