358 Winchester

200gr. RN bullets in .35 cal may be made 'soft' on purpose. Remember that the .35 Rem, with SAAMI max loads, barely cracks 2,000fps at the muzzle, and those bullets don't get faster downrange. I've shot animals 100+ yards away with factory 200gr. Rem ammo; the stuff worked just fine but when I chronographed it, most of the shots were less than 2,000 fps a few feet from the muzzle! No telling how slow they were going at 125 yards or so but there was still plenty of expansion, so the factory Rem stuff is pretty soft indeed. Haven't used 200gr. jacketed bullets from other manufacturers, so can't comment on those. At Whelen velocities, I would hate to think how much expansion the same bullets would have.

The .35 Rem, by the way, shines with cast bullets and those are my preference. Been experimenting with the Hornady Flex-tip and will report back when the critters cooperate. A pig would be a good test as our whitetails are too lightly built to stress a bullet much.

I would have a very hard time calling 2550 and 2650 a big difference in speed. The .358 Win and the 35 Whelen are a lot more alike than they are different. The 35 Rem IS quite a bit different than either. Deer are remarkably easy to kill if hit in the vitals and don’t actually require two holes to die. They are easier to follow with two holes, but when hit in the vitals with a 358 Win or a 35 Rem, they die pretty quickly. When not shot in the vitals they can go quite a ways regardless of what they’re shot with. I’ve killed around a hundred deer with handguns, mostly .357mag revolvers. To date I haven’t lost one deer with that cartridge. Many did not have an exit hole. The only deer I’ve lost with a handgun was one shot with a full power 44 mag round. It was a bad hit on my part. I believe most lost deer are a result of shooter performance than bullet performance.

Talking about bullet performance in different calibers/cartridges when Nosler brought out the 140gr 7mm accubond I worked up loads for my 7-08, on 4th of July weekend I got in pretty bad motorcycle accident and broke my leg, etc. etc. everything except my melon which had a full helmet on it took a hard fall to the pavement at 60mph.
I got a shoot from the vehicle permit and started off with an antelope, shot him in the back of the head so no bullet test there, second animal was a big whitetail, shot him from the comfort of my driver seat on opening morning. Rock solid rest and I put it right behind his front shoulder, I thought I seen him stumble for a second but he made it into a cattail swamp that wasn't froze over enough to hold my weight. I looked for 20 minutes from solid ground into the 8ft tall cattails to no avail, at the time I had a rat terrier but she didn't seem to think there was anything around and was afraid of the ice as well, she finally got wind of something and insisted we go down the creek 200yds. It wasn't where I could drive so I crutched it all the way there and could here her thrashing something out of sight in the tall cattails. After an aggravating ice breaking foray I found the deer hit exactly where I thought but the exit wound was about an inch in diameter, the bullet had barely expanded. That same bullet expands very well from my 7mm saum with 350fps more velocity.
Back to the 358, I found it more difficult to match a bullet to the 358win and get the performance I wanted from it than any other cartridge I'd worked with previously.
I'd like to hear from some people who have used the Winchester 200gr silvertip factory load on good sized whitetails.
Of course many changes have been made in the last 25yrs, it was around 97 or 98 when I had ER Shaw re-barrel that gun to 358.

For whatever reason, the .358 was loaded rather conservatively when it debuted. 200gr @ 2490 from Winchester was the only load around. That and the slower 250gr which was never really popular. The .338 federal was loaded warmer from it's inception in the early-mid 00s. Suddenly warmer loads for the .358 started popping up with one that matched Remington's 35 Whelen 200gr at 2675 FPS.

I tried BB's 225gr SGK @ 2550 and it shot better than any other I'd ever used in my BLR; sub MOA. There's a few small ammo companies loading the 180gr Speer for it now. One is 2600 the other @ 2800 FPS. I'm figuring on trying the 2600 version in my BLR this season and the 225 in my M70 SG. I've heard great things about the 180gr Speers so I'm really wanting to try them. As soon as someone gets some in stock (if ever?) I'm wanting to try the Speer 220s in one or the other as well.

gssixgun said:

I am pretty much in the same camp,
I always try and break a shoulder, either on the way in or angle to hit it on the way out.

Admittedly not as capable a Tracker/Hunter as I am a shooter I just do not want to have to track anything,.

This method has been working for me since I started using it in the late 80's after reading about "Anchoring Dangerous Game" at some point in time.
It just made sense, breaking the shoulder and crossing the chest cavity with the shot, or visa versa, once I switched to the Barnes X around 91 the exit hole became a consistent thing.
Seems to work for me, ain't planning on changing it anytime soon ..

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when i was using jacketed bullets for deer, i could either shoot both lungs or break a shoulder either way. i was unofficially testing which was better? i came up with both🤔. although, using a jacketed bullet to break the shoulder will make you throw away much blood shot meat. so it's one or the other.

i was a pretty good tracker/hunter/shooter, so it never bothered me. most of time, the deer would only run about 30-40 yards. one time i was using a 243 (early '90s) and a 85gr Barnes X-bullet and i shot a doe, behind the shoulder at 30-40 yards. she ran about 300-350 yards thru the brush and died. there was little or no blood on the ground or trees. i found her laying down in the mountain laurel, that i had to crawl on my knees for 100+/- yards. the shot was good, but the bullet performance was horrible. it was like shooting FMJ, i had to really look for the entrance and exit wound. it was like putting a pencil into the lungs. i later found out that Barnes X bullets were known for not expanding.

now i am handi-cap-able and can't track my dog, let alone deer. also, i have gone to Dark Side on cast boolits (yes, we have cake and cookies). I've been shooting cast for about 10-11 years. i luv it!!! i shoot behind the shoulder of a deer and it is either DRT or the deer jog about 20-40 yards and then fall over. i am in close cover deer, so 50-60 yards is max on shooting. 30-40 Krag all the way up to 500 Linebaugh and Lyman #2 or tin and COWW and i am good to go. my velocity is 1930fps for the Krag and 1240fps for 500 Linebaugh (23" TC Encore MGM barrel). the others are between that.

i have only shot three deer with the Winchester m94 in 35/30-30. it is a 200gr RCBS FN GC and 2400/tuft of Dacron going 1726fps. the alloy is Lyman #2 and a skosh of tin, 15BHN+-. the first two doe were 25-30 yards away and they jogged 20-25 yards. the 4pt was 53 yards away and he jogged 15-20 yards till he gave up the ghost. 3 shots = 3 deer. every one of them were shot behind the shoulder (.360" entrance) and exited behind the shoulder (.4 - .5" exit). both (back) lungs were trashed and there was no blood shot meat, just a hole in and a hole out.