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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Greetings all.....brand new forum member here. Thank you in advance for your patience, insight and thoughtful responses.

Been "lurking" here off and on for a few years and finally registered. May see same posts on "other" gun forums, just trying to get widest exposure to knowledge, experience and opinions.

I've got a 270W (22" barrel) and 338WM (24" barrel) for flat, longer range shooting of deer and elk. BUT, I got the 35 caliber bug and am setting up for "WOODS/STALKING" rifle/cartridge

Just bought a short (19" barrel), light (7.4#s scoped) bolt rifle in 358W. It will be my BIG bore, medium range deer rifle. Thinking of using same rifle for elk with just a bullet weight and sight in change!

QUESTION: Is a .358 caliber 225g Nosler Partition starting at 2500fps a SURE killer of elk out at 240-250yds given REASONABLE angles and GOOD shot placement. (I am trying to get an idea of surety with the 358W at medium ranges, like I have with the 338WM at longer ranges).

May have to buy a little more powerful (350RM) short, light rifle...?

Like I mentioned I have gotten the 35 caliber bug.....:)

PS - "BearTracker" GREAT post on the 358W and Ruger Hawkeye rifle. That rifle is beautiful. I focused in on the caliber and purchased my 358W rifle after reading it.

Regards Joe
 

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i dont see how it wouldnt kill elk... Be a fine woods cartridge, though i would use something bigger and slower for a woods cartridge, as around here shots in the "woods" dont get over 40 yards and thats a stretch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I currently hunt the Weippe plains in Idaho. It's a mix of heavy timber and farm land. Navy pilot buddy of mine retired there......and I have the good fortune of getting to hunt with him.:)

In the woods shots of 20-60 yds and as far as 400 yds across a hay field from the edge of the woods. I would limit my shots with this rifle/caliber combination to about 250 yds or so on ELK. Some days I'll need and use the 270 or 338 based on where/what we are going to hunt. Many days its in and around heavy timber and the edge of a hay field.

I know it will kill elk at a good distance, I'm just trying to get a feel for a new caliber combination for me based on others experiences. I like to put game down as fast and reliably as reasonable and use self imposed yardage limits to help ensure my desire. I'll pass on a shot unless I'm pretty sure of its effectiveness.

Will be retiring to the Four Corners Colorado area in three years so will see lots of woods hunting there, Weippe and the northern Colorado (Glenwood Springs) area as my brother lives there.
 

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Yes, there is nothing short of very big dangerous game that you would not cleanly take at 250 yards or less with that 35. As far as I concerned everything else is for shooting if you want to talk hunting your talking 35.

good luck
GF
 

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The 358 Winchester is good elk medicine, and the Partition is the finest bullet available.
 

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I have a 19" barreled .358 also. It is a keeper...I named it "Thumper" and it does this to stuff:


I think you may have trouble getting 2500 fps. with a 225 gr. bullet out of a short barrel, but in any case you have a fine 250-yard elk rifle there.

It will do anything your .338 will do, you just have to subtract about 100 yards of maximum effective range.
 

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I have a buddy who has killed two big elk over the last 3yrs using a 358Win and the 225gr Accubond and his closet shot was 126yds the elk went down in about 30yds and his longest being 238yds and the elk went down in less than 20yds. He says he likes his 358Win better than he does his 300Wim mag because the elk go down quicker with the 358Win. Now he was not saying you can shoot it farther than the 300 so don't anyone get bent out of shape. His Accubond is moving 2541fps out of his 358Win and he says he practices with it out to 300yds. Yes, depending on the shooter and the load the 358Win is deadly on elk.

It is not just some woods gun like so many say it is. I also practice out to 300yds and anything I want to hit from 0-300 is mine and I know I could go a bit father and hit because of the 2 3/4" - 3 1/4" groups I shoot all the time at 300yds. In my opinion the best cartridge off the 308 case besides the 308 is the 358Win plain and simple. I hit a bobcat at 175yds on a gas line I was hunting. The bobcat was sitting facing me and I hit him right in the center of his chest and that is a 3" kill area at best. I is not a problem to shoot a 358Win out to 300yds easy and kill what you are hitting.

With my handload I have a 225gr Accubond now moving at 2559fps and it shoots 3/4 - 1 1/4" at 100yds and at 300yds still retains 1962ft pounds of energy. More than enough to kill an Elk or Moose much less a deer or black bear.
 

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Even though the 350 RM and 35 Whelen are a bit faster, when you have that nice 225 grain Accubond moving at 2500+ FPS, its going to hit like a train. I've chronographed my 350 RM with a 220 Speer at 2740 FPS
 

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Presuming you are handloading, or your factory loads manage 2400fps out of that 19" barrel, your trajectory will look something like this, when sighted in for a 7" circle:

Range Elevation Velocity Energy
0 yds -1.50 in 2400 fps 2877 fpe
50 yds 1.76 in 2306 fps 2657 fpe
100 yds 3.38 in 2215 fps 2450 fpe
150 yds 3.21 in 2125 fps 2255 fpe
200 yds 1.15 in 2037 fps 2073 fpe
250 yds -2.96 in 1951 fps 1902 fpe
300 yds -9.31 in 1868 fps 1742 fpe

Realistically, 1700fpe and a Nosler Partition is enough to convince any elk to spend the winter in your freezer. With a 2400fps muzzle velocity and a high shoulder hold, you could certainly expect to kill an elk cleanly at 300 yards, provided you have practiced enough and have ranged the shot. For maximum point blank range (no hold-over) sight in about 3.5" high and you're good out to that 250 yards you were looking for. My only concern would be at what velocity that particular Partition bullet will stop expanding reliably. Their fancy website says 1800fps, so you would be right at the operating window for this bullet, at 300 yards.

You might consider going with the classic Remington 200gr Core-lokt, as it has proven to be a very reliable performer and would give you better MV, although it probably wouldn't retain it as well as the Nosler.
 

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I own the fine .358 Win, along with the .35 Whelen, .350 RM, and .356 Win too. The .358 Win is a FINE caliber, and... underloaded in factory rounds today. It will work just fine!
 

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I'd recommend the 350 Rem mag or 35 Whelen for the following reasons:

1. You ain't going to get 2500 fps out of a 19" barrel 358 Win with a 225 gr bullet w/out going overpressure. You'd be hard pressed to push a 200 grain bullet that fast. I push a 200 grain bullet at 2480fps out of my short barreled Ruger and had to drop back to 2400fps due to poor accuracy. Therefore, your drop at 250 yards may be considerably more than you're expecting. If you don't have the skill and the optics at dealing w/ 10" (based on a 200 yard zero) or more of drop and nearly the same amount of wind drift, you're not making an ethical shot.

2. Your velocity at 250 yards is likely to be down to about 1800 fps, which is marginal for mosts bullet to open reliably or to punch through bone.

The 350 Rem mag or 35 Whelen would give you the long range trajectory and impact velocity to ensure a clean kill.
 

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Get a 358Win in a Ruger M77 Hawkeye with a 22" barrel and you are in business. It will not kick as hard as the 350 for sure, I know I owned one in a Mod 7 and the 358 will kill what ever you are hunting just as dead and a 300yd shot is easy. I owned a 35 Whelen in a CDL and it was nice but not as accurate as my 358Win and the 350Rem mag was not as accurate as the Whelen. Plus, using TAC and the 225gr Accubond you will get 2250fps or more and not be over pressure plus it will be accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
This is great stuff.....

I've been pouring over hunting threads and ballistics charts for days now and was hoping for real life experiences ( even contrasting points of view ) to help me decide.

Like I mentioned, this 358W and 19" barrel rifle combo will be my "woods BIG bore, medium range" deer gun, but I was just wondering if I could reasonably (ethically) stretch it a little and gun for elk at the same basic ranges.

Still may do that, but would not mind getting a R600/660 in 350RM to make sure if that is the best thing.

Thanks
 

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This is great stuff.....

I've been pouring over hunting threads and ballistics charts for days now and was hoping for real life experiences ( even contrasting points of view ) to help me decide.

Like I mentioned, this 358W and 19" barrel rifle combo will be my "woods medium bore, medium range" deer gun, but I was just wondering if I could reasonably (ethically) stretch it a little and gun for elk at the same basic ranges.

Still may do that, but would not mind getting a R600/660 in 350RM to make sure if that is the best thing.

Thanks
That's the idea...a great excuse to get another rifle!:)
 

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Dad got a 358 Win. in a 99 Savage a good many years ago. My Sis has it now and I've been trying to talk her into letting me "use" it for a couple years.

Dad was known to "stretch" a gun barrel now and again and I'm sure he shot at least 250 yards with his more than once. Back then the selection of .358 bullets wasn't that good. He used Hornady 200 and 250 grain round nosed bullets with much success. When I told him I was getting a 35 Whelan he told me he originally looked at one, but that brass was hard to come by so he went with the .358 instead.

Had he known that .270 brass, when necked up to 35 caliber is exactly the right length he might have gotten the 35 Whelan. :D He never was a .270 fan and would have enjoyed "destroying" .270 brass and making into something useful. ;)

RJ
 

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I agree, the .25 and .35 versions of '06 brass are the most useful versions. :D

You'll have to handload to take advantage of the .350RM, but there is quite a bit of factory fodder in the .35 Whelen.

Even though everyone keeps saying medium bore, the .35 is actually a big bore, everything above .338 is considered a big bore.
 

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I've used my Remington 7400 35 Whelen with 250gr X bullets at 2400fps muzzle speed. At close range expect instant kills taking heart-lung shots. At longer ranges expect them to take a few steps then fall over. :cool:
 

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I too eventually want a .35 also. But I will lean more towards a .358 STA or RUM. The .358 Norma would be my top choice over the .358 Win though.

24" Barrels

.358 Ultra Mag - 250gr Nosler @ 3020
.358 STA - 250gr @ 2980
.358 Norma - 250gr @ 2775
.350 Rem Mag - 250gr @ 2500 +/-
.35 Whelen - 250gr @ 2475-2500
.358 Win - 250gr @ 2400
 

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Tang,
Your figures are off with the 350 Rem. There is no way that cartridge can beat the Whelen in velocity when using a 250 grain bullet. The Magnum loses powder space when seating those bullets in short actions. The Whelen suffers no such handicap, and my Whelen easily reaches 2550 with 250 grain Speers, and I bet I could get 2600fps if I so desired.
 

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I get 2850 fps w/ 225 grainers from my 22" Rem 673...long Barnes bullets. I have no doubts that I could get well over 2500 fps w/ a 250 grain bullet and TAC powder from my 350 Rem mag. IF I wanted to shoot 250's, which I don't.

Don't think it gives up much, if anything, to a 35 Whelen.
 
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