[DaveN26]

im thinking about buying winchesters model 70 safari express chambered in 375 H-H mag. i would use it to hunt black bears mainly. but i would occasionaly use it as a brush gun and hunt whitetail with it also. whats the effective range of this cartridge? does it shoot relativley flat? also how is the recoil? could someone who have shot it compare it to another gun to give me an idea? thanks in advance fellas.

 

[Irv S]

im thinking about buying winchesters model 70 safari express chambered in 375 H-H mag. i would use it to hunt black bears mainly. but i would occasionaly use it as a brush gun and hunt whitetail with it also. whats the effective range of this cartridge? does it shoot relativley flat? also how is the recoil? could someone who have shot it compare it to another gun to give me an idea? thanks in advance fellas.

Trajectory similar to .30-06. Felt recoil (with 270 gr) less than my .340 Weatherby (with 250 grain) (more of a shove verses a sharp jab). A little long for a brush rifle.

 

[DaveN26]

thanks alot irv. do you have any experience with the 416 rem mag? if so whats your thoughts on that cartridge?

 

[Saskshooter]

Dave, what is your experience level with guns in general, and hunting in particular?

Using a cartridge in the power levels you are discussing requires, in my opinion, some solid shooting experience to do so effectively, and that power level is just not necessary for black bear and deer. Your questions indicate uncertainty. If you have not fired rifles of that level of power, you may well find that cartridges which are much easier to manage will be absolutely adequate for your intended purpose.

Why are you investigating those particular cartridges for your particular purposes?

 

[richard scott]

depends on what you're used to shooting.
recoil is moderate with that rifle in that caliber, relatively speaking. 338 WM delivers a sharper jolt and the muzzle seems to jump a bit more. now shoot a 9.3X64 which is similar in power to the 375.
i have an older super express in 416RM and the original stock seems configured well for the heavy recoil. the safari express in 375 will have similar stock dimensions.
as far as the 416 RM, it is leeps and bounds ahead of the 375 in power and recoil. i've shot elephants and buffalos with both and there is absolutely no comparison between the two in killing and stopping power. it is needlessly powerful for anything smaller than a cape buffalo or a kodiak bear. for a handloader though, the 416 is really versatile with a great variety of bullet weights.
on the same note, a 375 seems needlessly powerful for black bears, though i've never shot one so am no expert. 9.3X62 probably makes more sense for a black bear/woods gun. shorter case, shorter action, lighter rifle. maybe better handling than a 375 with a 24" barrel.

 

[DaveN26]

tbh im relativley new to guns. but im not someone who is afraid to shoot guns that "kick" im comfortable enough to shoot sub moa groups with a 300 win mag or wsm. im also aware that that lesser cartridges are plenty for deer or black bear. i enjoy guns and am interested in owning several in different calibers. with that said iv never shot anything bigger than a 300 WM and of course thats why im relying on the knowledge of you folks when it comes to recoil and ballistics among other things.

 

[magnumitis]

With 250 grainers, the H&H is easily a 300 yard elk, moose and bear rifle. It is definitely in a different recoil bracket than the .300 Magnums. But, I don't think (if you don't find the .300's at all hateful) that you will have any trouble with the H&H.

Probably is a tad bigger than you have to have for black bears. But, so what?? Never saw any critter killed too dead............ever. Here, in PA, a guy can not discount a shot at a blackie in the 500-700 pound range. My bear rifle is my .375 Weatherby. There's been a time I was glad to have it. Anything much less would have cost me a B&C bear.

Bottom line..................if you want a .375 H&H, get one. If you find yourself still wanting................ my smith still has the .375 Wby reamer and would be happy to give you the upgrade.

 

[Saskshooter]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html

 

[broom_jm]

In guns of similar construction and design, the 375 H&H is going to generate recoil energy that it roughly 40% greater than a 300WM. For me, personally, that would probably cross the threshold between being able to mentally steel myself against the kick...and flinching my fool head off. Not ashamed to say it, either. If I was going after a black bear, even one that weighs 700 pounds, I would feel completely comfortable with a 300WM. About the only situation in North America where a 375H&H would be worth the recoil is when pursuing brown bears or other big game in brown bear country.

 

[MikeG]

I'd start out with something a little smaller for a new shooter. It'll work out better in the end.....

A nice handy .308 Win should do it, easily, and be accurate and cost a lot less for ammo.

 

[2Bits]

Dave N-26, if you do not have the experience of shooting a big magnum rifle, I would suggest easing into that platform by using a .30-06 caliber as it only has 23 pounds of felt recoil to your torso with 200 grain & 220 grain bullets.

The .375H&H is not a caliber one takes lightly when shooting from the bench (anytime for that matter) It will dish out something like 44 pounds of felt recoil to your upper torso and that is a bunch for someone not used to recoil in a rifle. Also 5 pounds of felt recoil can be felt by most shooters and it is enough to break the camels back in terms of being able to shoot and handle the .375-HH with accuracy.

Now since I do own a .375-HH, .375Wby and the .416-Remington Mag, I can tell you there is as much difference between the .375H&H and the 30-06 as there will be between the .375-HH and the .416-Rem. Mag. The later being a lot in the recoil department........OUCH!!!

 

[hillestadj]

im thinking about buying winchesters model 70 safari express chambered in 375 H-H mag. i would use it to hunt black bears mainly. but i would occasionaly use it as a brush gun and hunt whitetail with it also. whats the effective range of this cartridge? does it shoot relativley flat? also how is the recoil? could someone who have shot it compare it to another gun to give me an idea? thanks in advance fellas.

If you have to ask any of those questions its a pretty good indicator you arent ready for one. Furthermore, that definately wouldnt be a brush gun to most guys and it will certainly kill a black bear, but no more dead than any of the other dozens of other rounds better suited to the task.

tbh im relativley new to guns. but im not someone who is afraid to shoot guns that "kick" im comfortable enough to shoot sub moa groups with a 300 win mag or wsm. im also aware that that lesser cartridges are plenty for deer or black bear. i enjoy guns and am interested in owning several in different calibers. with that said iv never shot anything bigger than a 300 WM and of course thats why im relying on the knowledge of you folks when it comes to recoil and ballistics among other things.

Its clear that you're new to rifles and thats just fine. I also understand wanting to own several different calibers, I feel that need myself. Stepping up into an H&H or the .416 Rem at this point in the game for you is comparable to buying a Formula 1 car on your 16th birthday. They are rounds that were designed to deliver a lot of energy at modest ranges on very large game. They were never intended for casual users. In case you havent looked into ammunition for those rounds heres a preview for you, $60 on the low side to $100+ depending on what you need. Talk about cost prohibitive.

Ammunition costs, higher platform costs, excessive recoil, and excessive power for anything in North America except for the biggest bears are all reasons that many of these guns that are bought used have been in the safe over a decade, look great, and come with the original box of ammunition. Guys think they are cool or have Safari pipe dreams so they buy one and get a reality check real early on.

Just my take, but what do I know. **** you probably need 2 of 'em.

 

[Irv S]

thanks alot irv. do you have any experience with the 416 rem mag? if so whats your thoughts on that cartridge?

I've never fired a .416, but it is the caliber (in one of the several chamberings) that I would choose if I had the opportunity to go to Africa for one of the big animals.

The rifle I will carry if I go to PA (already have the licenses) for black bear and deer this year will be a .35 Whelen Rem 7600. I understand there are several bear in the area of my farm including one estimated at 400 to 500 pounds. I like big bullets, but think even my .340 Weatherby (which I used for a, laser-measured, 1 shot 350 yard kill on a 6x bull elk last week) is too much for there as the ranges are not long.

 

[DaveN26]

here in upstate NY there is a northern and southern zone for hunting. the northern zone (adirondacks) has alot more bears than does the southern zone. so if i did buy a 375 H-H i would use it to hunt northern zone. i personaly am of the belief that a gun cannot be to "big" as long as the person can shoot it accuratly and there is not substanial meat loss. needless to say i am not one who is compelled to use the minimum caliber for a particular type of game. especially when hunting dangerous game like black bear, my fathers cousin was charged by a black bear, granted those occurances are rare they certainly do happen. anyways i wanna thank everyone for there input. its always appreciated

 

[Bigfoot]

I have the Win rifle you are talking about in 375 H&H. Shot it yesterday for awhile. It does kick, but not excessively in my opinion. I had a Remington 375 H&H that weighed less than 7 lbs. It made me give up after 6-7 rounds every time. the Winchester is a little heavier so it is not unpleasant to me.

If you want one, get it. Learn to reload if you don't already. Lots of 375 caliber bullets available at different weights. I have been trying some cast 265 grain bullets at low velocity. Haven't shot enough of them to comment on performance but they would work well for a Whitetail.

Don

 

[mr_tw]

Have you thought about a Marlin in .45-70? makes a great brush gun, has loads of power, is easy to reload for and the recoil is much more of a push than a punch! Not to mention if a bear does charge, you'll get allot more lead down range in way less time than a bolt gun ever could!

 

[2Bits]

I can certainly come up with several calibers that will kill blackbear deader than dead, without the excess recoil to the upper body. NO ONE will shoot a .375 accurately if you haven't worked your way up the ladder and with lots of good practice. It took me two years of practice, jumping from a .300 Win mag to a .338 Win mag. Shooting a 180 grain bullet verses a 225 or 250 grain bullet, I also put on some 25 more pounds in the time period.

Now just to shoot a .375H&H and not be able to be accurate with it out to 200 yards is ludicrous as far as I m concerned. If you can't be honest and accurate with what you can handle then no one else can help you either. It just takes time and lots of shooting as to not to develope a FLINCH!!! If you need a recoil Pad to lesson recoil, so be it and use it well, I sure do for that .416-Rem mag.

 

[gunchamp]

I'm a big bore guy. I believe you can never use too much gun for anything. If you want a 375 h&h, by all means get it. The recoil is not that bad. I soot my 375 ruger off the bench on a regular basis. Get a scope with alot of eye relief so you dont catch one in the eye and start practicing. If you have any problems with flinching, sit down with a 22lr and practice trigger control. I'll shoot thousands of rounds through my 22's to practice good control. It becomes second nature when firing big bores. Bottom line, get what you want the first time. Its alot cheaper. Enjoy

 

[MikeG]

Uh..............

Guys, I have a few boomers and like them, but that is not really very good advice for a novice. Can you say "flinch?" I did notice the advice for a long eye relief scope, which is good.

I love my Marlins but the stock dimensions are horrible for recoil. I'd rather shoot my .338 Win Mag from the bench than my .444 ..... at the very least, add a recommendation for the very best recoil pad that money can buy, and exactly correct stock dimensions.

Starting out with the "big ones" is going to be counterproductive in terms of learning to shoot. More good advice to spend plenty of time behind the trigger of a .22, you just can't shoot those too much. Besides they are a heck of a lot cheaper to practice with!

Then you can always buy that .375 later...

 

[Saskshooter]

Dave, Bigfoot says "if you want one, get it."

I say you can't argue with that. BUT (notice it's a big but) you do not need such guns at all for what you are planning, and I support the advice here that such guns are not suitable for people new to shooting. If you came here to support a decision already made, I do not support you. If you came here for advice from people who have lots of experience, maybe you should take it.

Heavy recoil takes the fun out of shooting, tends to give people bad habits that are very tough to break and which can make you a bad shot, costs a lot of money, and is not necessary for what you want to do. As has been already said, if you are asking these questions, you are not a good candidate for a .375 H&H.