[BrianK]

I'm a fan of the .375 bore. Presently I shoot a .375/06 JDJ (handgun), but it's short neck is really designed for jacketed bullets.

I saw the .375x2" proposed wildcat, but in the Encore using expensive brass isn't necessary, the '06 case will work just dandy as a .375 IMHO.

Am I on the right track with looking at the .375 Whelen as a cast bullet cartridge for the Encore? Looking at a neck length of .465", if I'm thinking correctly, the 255gr LFN GC will work nicely, I see no data to tell me if the 250 grain will. Since it's a single shot (I don't need to crimp) I do have some leeway on seating depth as it regards the bullet not intruding on powder space and keeping the grease grooves covered.

What do you all think?

 

[James Gates]

Brian...I'll jump in here on this one. The .375 Whelen, designed by Bob Wallack, is and always has been an outstanding cartridge! People have been shy about it do to the "Pulp Paper Mill". These "experts", who never worked with the cartridge claimed its small shoulders would not allow postive headspacing. That's pure hogwash. Since I am the one designing the improved ".375 Beartooth" I will make the comparison between thr two. First of all, the ballistics, internal and external, are very close. Both case capacities are about the same. We are looking as an ideal for American game, a powder capacity of 60 grains of IMR type powder. Both have that. So....why the .375 Beartooth? The .375 Beartooth is designed around the OAL for the big Marlins and with a neck length to cover the lube grooves on the BTB 250 LFN GC. The .375 Whelen's length is for standard length bolt guns and single shots. The Encore is a very strong action, but I still suggest holding the psi @ 44,000/45,000. The neck on the whelen is the minimum to cover the BTB 250, but it will work, with maybe only the GC below the neck. Case life will be excellent on either one. The .375 Beartooth is based on the .350 Remington Magnum. It has sharp shoulders to aid in headspacing. The overall cost of brass just is not that much when compared with other cost. However, if you like that great wildcat, the .375 Whelen, by all means put it on the Encore. An excellent load for both cartridges is: 250 gr BTB LFN GC with 60 grians of IMR 4064 @ avg 2450 '/"- Me @ 3,335 ft/lbs. If you like, you can drop that powder charge 5% to get 5% less velocity with a 10% decrease in pressure. With IMR 4064 you can go all the way down to a 10% decrease in powder and a 10% decrease in velocity with a 20% decrease in pressure. That's the beauty of the IMR powders. You do not need a magnum primer. I hope this has been some help. Best Regards, James

 

[BrianK]

Thanks James,

I'm glad you didn't take my post as casting aspersions on the new wildcat. I intended no negatives in it's direction.

I hope my continued musings make sense.

The brass cost I referred to was a personal one, I should have been more explicit and free with my typing. I have lots of .30/06 brass, hence it's cheap for me. Too, the smaller head size of the '06 (compared to .350 Rem Magnum head size) is my built in psi thrust limiter on the standing breech of the Encore. I know the Encore will handle the head size of the .350 at 55,000 psi, I just don't want to get anywhere near the Encores designed pressure limits, it's a safety thing and an "I don't want it to blow up in my hand" thing. I admit it, I'm spleeny when it comes to the emergency room.

Since I admittedly know next to nothing about proper cast bullets is there a "cast bullet reason" not to push pressure to near 55,000 psi? I'll be pushing them out of a handgun length barrel and will want all I can get from the short tube.

Thanks.

 

[James Gates]

Brian...No problem. I knew exactly where you were coming from. As for cast bullets..Marshall is the one to talk to as to what the upper limits of cast.It's my thoughts that velocity is more critical then pressure. You are correct as to the area of the head Vs back thrust, however many times this is offset by flatter side walls of the case. Consider the Improved version of the .375 Whelen to reduce backthust even more. If I was to build another custom Mauser, I would consider the .375 Whelen foremost. I have a good friend who swears by the .35 Whelen in the Remington Mod 7600. There were some problems with the first factory rounds as having too rounded shoulders causing some setback. Any fire forming on these Whelens should be with near working presure loads. The Encore is a great action but I still like a couple of thousnds long on the shoulders for "Snap Shut" which reduces case strecthing.
Best Regards, James

 

[Marshall Stanton]

Brian,

Mo problem with the 55,000 psi and cast bullets, at least good hard, gas-checked bullets that are properly fit to the throat of your firearm!

When approaching this pressure threshold however, you will find that best accuracy, and overall cast performance will be obtained when loading the slowest burning powder that will still generate your target velocity.  In this way you have a longer pressure curve with the lowest possible spike, which facilitates ease of load development and contributes to some outstanding cast bullet performance!

As to the .375 Whelen... I've got a beautiful ex-GI Springfield action and a stainless steel medium contour .375" bore barrel that has been waiting for two years for me to put together as a .375 Whelen Improved!  The improved version as Mr. Gates has noted to reduce back-thrust on the boltface, and to virtually eliminate case stretch.  I've always appreciated the efficiency of the .375's and the .375 Whelen is an outstanding performer... one of those projects for long Idaho winter nights when I have nothing else to do! (Ha!)

God bless,

Marshall

 

[BrianK]

Thanks Gents!

It looks like I need to do some research on the .375/06 Improved. I did see it in Cartridges Of The World, but it had little info about it.

 

[ssuperx]

what kids of ballistics can u get with a 375-06
guess its close to 338-06 performance and energy

 

[James Gates]

SSUPERX....The .375 Whelen is the "sleeper" of wildcat cartridges! It should have been a factory load years ago instead of some of the junk that's come out. It's a very uniform cartridge and works like a dreamin standard length actions, even the Mauser. The case, like its parent case (.30-06) holds 61/63 grs of water. This gives a full density load of 54+ grs of IMR type powders. The following loads came out of my record book that Parker Ackley and Elwood Wimmer worked up years ago, but are still top notch!
235 gr jackectd bullet-57 grs IMR 4064 @ 2575 '/"
350 gr jacketed bullet-57 grs IMR 4064 @ 2545 '/"
This was out of a 24" barrel. The neck is also long enough to be a real fine hard cast bullet cartridge! Some will want to go to the .375 Whelen Improved, but I prefer the standard.
Best regards, James

 

[Bill Lester]

Brian,

Have you considered the .375 Hawk from Z-Hat? Uses the cheap, widely available '06 brass you already have and gives over 2600 fps with 260 grain Nosler Partitions, 2500 fps with 270's, and even just shy of 2400 fps with 300's.

 

[BrianK]

Bill, I couldn't be happier with the .375/06 JDJ as it's chambered in my handgun barrel. In it I use jacketed bullets as that's what it was specifically designed for. I'm not looking for another .375 that uses jacketed bullets.

I'm scanning the offerings for a .375 with a suitable neck for cast bullets, as the short neck of the JDJ isn't really suited to them. I saw the .375 Whelen and it looked like it'd do cast bullets, hence the Whelen/neck question.

Is the .375 Hawk suitable for cast bullets? I know nothing about it. Tell me more if it is.

 

[Bill Lester]

Brian,

I have to be honest I don't know. Contact Z-Hat through their website at www.z-hat.com for more info.
I don't see any reason why it wouldn't. The short neck of the 300 Savage has never given me problems with cast 160 RN's, so I can't see much problem with this one.

 

[arkypete]

I've been using the 375 Whelen for the past 10-12 years. It's never had a jacket slug through it, all cast. I use the data for the 35 Whelen and 30-06 to interpolate starting loads and powders.
I've found that the Accurate Arms powders 2460 and 2520 work best for my rifle. 2460 has worked nicely behind 250 grain to 300 grain slugs.
If there'a other info you want give me a yell.
Jim

 

[arkypete]

I'm going to add a bit to my previous post.
My cases are standardized by uniforming the primer pocket and the flash hole. Then the neck is turned to a standard thickness and trimmed. All of this occurs after I have fire formed the brass to my rifle using sub standard cast bullets. I do my brass in 100 case lots and I currently have 300 cases for this rifle.
I've never lost a case to wear or splitting. I've scrunched a couple in the loading process by not paying attention.
My dies were made by Saeco, the barrel is a Douglas, chambered by Ray's Gunsmith Shop in Colo. The bullet moulds that I use are by Saeco, NEI and Lyman.
The Lyman had it's nose portion lapped out a gnat's eyelash to give it a bit of a bore ride portion.
Jim

 

[James Gates]

Jim...That sounds like a real nice rifle. I have one prewar DWM Mauser action left. What is the twist on your barrel? Do you outside turn or inside ream the necks. What is the size of your expander ball used for cast? Thanks.
Best Regards, James

 

[RugerNo3]

Sounds as if James is gettin' the itch for a 375 Whelen. Then he'll train them bulldogs to line the hogs up side by side to get a 2 for one shot.

 

[James Gates]

At my age I need to train them to pull me in a wagon...It's got to where I can't run but about a mile in the swamps anymore! Oh well..............! I know you believe that.
I am concerned with the OAL with cast bullets in the .375 as you all know the Mauser is a great action, but the mag box is short. Some people cut it out under the feed ramp, but I will not. I also got to thinking about a Remington 7600 action. Sonnie Youngblood has a .35 Whelen in one and it shoots like a house afire. Howard, over at A.W.Peterson Gun shop is rebarreling and rechambering the 7600's into some interesting rifles. Then nothing would have to be changed except the barrel and a chambering job. Just what I need....Another rifle! Heck..talking about shooting through two hogs, I not so sure this little Marlin would not do it!
Best Regards, James

 

[arkypete]

The cases are outside neck turned on a Forester,,,I think that's the name.
I use a Lyman M die for 375. I chucked the expander into a power drill and used crocus cloth to polish it down to glass smooth.
Jim

 

[Eric]

Would an old Belgian Browning BAR in 30-06 make a likely prospect for converting to .375 whelan?  Would cast bullets work in the automatic action?

Eric

 

[James Gates]

Jim, I have the small tool, including the outside neck turner. I'm doing the same with .30-06 Springfield, except I wanted the ID @ .309" for .310" BTB cast so I use the expander ball from my 7.62x39mm Russian die.I should break down and get an "M" for that size.
Eric..I really don't know what would be involved in rebarreling a Browning BAR. I have good luck with thr Ruger No1 and a custom Mauser in .30-06. I understand that there are problems with lead going into the gas cylinder of the gas autos. If it's an early BAR in .30-06 you might work up a good trade and work at thr A.W.Peterson Gun Shop, Mt. Dora, Florida. Howard, the gunsmith, has done some nice work for me, but slow! I'm sure Marshall or one of the others members could give you fact on cast in the gas auto. What do you think Jim and Marshall?
Best Regards,James

 

[Bill Lester]

I shot a bit of cast in my old M1 Garand. Great loads in other rifles that never leaded. In the gas piston of the Garand, don't ask... :sad: