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Discussion Starter #1
tonight i tried something.. i fired 2 rnds of 90 grn critical defence hornady,
into a little set of junk drawers ..half inch thick face board two folded towels stuffed in the drawer 8 layers of beach towel.. 2 rnds fired both penetrated the half inch face board but failed to penetrate the towels.. so
so i went an got my old standby.. winchester 95 grn flat nosed solid rnd..
penetrated face board all 8 layers of towels an nearly went through the back half inch board of the drawer..i don t think this critical defence rnd is all that great..always have liked the penetration of the 95 grn flat nosed winchester rnd..
me im going with solid flat nosed ammo in the keltec..i don t6 claim this to be scientific.. but its not the first time ive been surprised by the performance of tis little flat nosed rnd..it suggest to me that for these litte guns ,defence special rnds just might not be the best.. i know i don t think they are..on top of that i wouldn t want to feed this gun a steady diet of buffalo or hot corbon rnds..jmo but ,i thought id post the results of my little experiment.. slim
 

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Thanks for the test info, Slim. I have never been impressed with the design of the "Critical Defense" bullet as more than an attempt to make a small bullet look more "lethal" by putting a "plug" of "poly" in a hollow-point. I'm with you on the "flat nose" Winchester, I just alternate them with a "cheap" hollow-point in my Keltec's magazine. I would be interested in the effects of a lead cast bullet of around 100gr in your test "medium?"
 

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The popular excuse for carrying an inadequate weapon is represented by the line: "The .380 I carry is better for me than the .44 I leave at home on the night stand." OK, maybe, and maybe not! I personally know (or knew) four people who used a .380 in a close range gunfight. Even though all shot really well (hitting the high chest multiple times in every case) none were successful in winning the fight. All the .380 users received grievous wounds.


http://forums.gunsamerica.com/yaf_p...ng-a-Handgun--Choose-Your-Weapon-Part-II.aspx
 

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Test ??

slim,a "test" for a personel defense round isn't ONLY about penetration. If so, I would concealed carry a .223 and M855's.

I also own a P-3AT. It is used as a BUG to my 45ACP, OR as a CCW while mowing the lawn,working in the garden or my shop,or BBQ'ing on the deck. My choice of ammo is the Speer Gold Dot. I have never done a "test" with this weapon although have trained to hit(at 7yds)a COM target,3 quick times,and can accomplish this rather easily now.

Will this immediately stop a fight ?? Don't know,never tried it. Will my 454 Casull ?? Don't know,never tried it.

Good luck in your next fire fight. -----pruhdlr
 

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For what it's worth, the NTOA test results (3 random Officers) showed that all rounds fired responded as they were supposed to, however; no rounds penetrated completely through any of the medium, and yet were still recommended for use. Interesting test... I also carry a .380 sometimes, and have wondered about some of the rounds out there. I unfortunately don't have a location to "test" my rounds. I carry Winchester PDX1's in both of my .380's... Anyone have any input on those yet?

Thanks in advance,
 

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slim,a "test" for a personel defense round isn't ONLY about penetration. If so, I would concealed carry a .223 and M855's.

I also own a P-3AT. It is used as a BUG to my 45ACP, OR as a CCW while mowing the lawn,working in the garden or my shop,or BBQ'ing on the deck. My choice of ammo is the Speer Gold Dot. I have never done a "test" with this weapon although have trained to hit(at 7yds)a COM target,3 quick times,and can accomplish this rather easily now.

Will this immediately stop a fight ?? Don't know,never tried it. Will my 454 Casull ?? Don't know,never tried it.

Good luck in your next fire fight. -----pruhdlr

In my experience the M-855 is not a very good penetrator. The bullet has tumbled and/or fragmented has been my experience with the M-855 ammo

Rest assured the 454 can most definately and defenitively stop a fight fast enough for survival if the target is hit in the right place. Can't say that for all ammo and calibers
 

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As I understand the design of the critical defense bullet, the plug allows the bullet to penetrate clothing & jackets so that it can expand in body tissue. The plug is to prevent cloth and leather from filling the hollow point and preventing the bullet from expanding. It's not designed to drill a hole thru the body.

I carry a 380 but w/ the Cor Bon/Barnes bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
to each his on..i don t carry this gun for a gun fight.. aint gonna get into a gun fight if thiers adequate cover,,anywhere around..im not a leo..
i wore one of these out,,learning to hit close in,, an keltec stamped my old serial number,in a new gun ,when i sent it to them for repairs..
right decent ofem ,i thought..im not like most as to going for center mass.. seen too many deer live a long time with a lot harder hitting rnd in them than a .380..with close contact defence i treat it like a knife.. strait to neck face area..man can t shoot or stab you after taking one of these in face ,nose, mouth, neck, etc....thats my bet ,you make yours..
ive got a 38 special w 4 inch barrel ,if forced into defence,at a distance..
same principle applies ..practice with a rnd you can confidently hit at 20 yrds or so..now like most gun ,i looked for the sweet rnd that fit me an gun ..confidence is real dang important fellas...
the most important thing.. know your self.. im fortunate..
been there three times an survival instincts kicked in with a high that made me better than i ever am on the practice rnd... the high i got from those experiences stayed with me well into the next day..
it makes me understand some of the legendary shooter of olden times..
ive an idea ,they were addicted to that high..jmo.. but know yourself..
if you the sort ,not blessed with the ability to hold togather in threats ,,
practice like a fiend..good luck to all.. may we never have to use these tools we have..if we do may we use them successfully an live through it.. slim
ps leverite .. what you said about the critical defence penetration of clothing,,is why they were in the gun to start with..test them yourself..me,,i don t think they measure up to thier hype..jmo. god bless.
 

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Interesting. I have been considering a .380 just as a back up to my .40 on the other side of my body. Basically a pocket holster that I could fire through a jacket pocket if I had to.
 

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to each his on..i don t carry this gun for a gun fight.. aint gonna get into a gun fight if thiers adequate cover,,anywhere around..im not a leo..
i wore one of these out,,learning to hit close in,, an keltec stamped my old serial number,in a new gun ,when i sent it to them for repairs..
right decent ofem ,i thought..im not like most as to going for center mass.. seen too many deer live a long time with a lot harder hitting rnd in them than a .380..with close contact defence i treat it like a knife.. strait to neck face area..man can t shoot or stab you after taking one of these in face ,nose, mouth, neck, etc....thats my bet ,you make yours..
ive got a 38 special w 4 inch barrel ,if forced into defence,at a distance..
same principle applies ..practice with a rnd you can confidently hit at 20 yrds or so..now like most gun ,i looked for the sweet rnd that fit me an gun ..confidence is real dang important fellas...
the most important thing.. know your self.. im fortunate..
been there three times an survival instincts kicked in with a high that made me better than i ever am on the practice rnd... the high i got from those experiences stayed with me well into the next day..
it makes me understand some of the legendary shooter of olden times..
ive an idea ,they were addicted to that high..jmo.. but know yourself..
if you the sort ,not blessed with the ability to hold togather in threats ,,
practice like a fiend..good luck to all.. may we never have to use these tools we have..if we do may we use them successfully an live through it.. slim

Slim, I read a case in which a lady officer was involved in a shoot out and was hit in the face and did not realize that she was hit until after the fight, when someone saw the entrance hole and told her that she'd been hit

Take nothing for granted in a life or death struggle, some are very determined and will not stop until stopped

Make mine a 45
 

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FMJ is the way to go for adequate penetration in a .380. Not enough mass in light bullets like .380, .32 etc. for HP's to penetrate deep enough. I use Double Tap 95gr. FMJ.
 

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+1... With out eneough penetration expansion is your enemy, not your friend
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
never ever take anything for granted.. i ll agree with that..it ain t over until the bg agression has been totally stopped..
but ask yourself, if you think you represent much of a threat with your chin shot off or one of your eyes shot out or even worse your nose is pouring blood from the hole where it was..but this is just my bet ,with the cards i hold..slim
ps.. ive been hit by the .380..almost blew my left hand off.. so it ll do ,if i don t have my shotgun handy..
 

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Slim-60, you are lucky they even went BANG!!! We had several boxes in various calibers that did not fire after the firing pin of our pistol stuck the primer. NO MORE HORNADY AMMO FOR US PERIOD:eek: :(

JWP-475 put up a very imformative article, that everyone weather or not you carry a pistol should read and obtain the knowledge shared by the Dr. You will soon see after reading this article that calibers like the .380-auto are not the answer for a backup and surely NOT a CCW weapon of choice.:)
 
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