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Discussion Starter #1
I'm new 1st post - Has anyone had a rifle that shot 4" group @100yds that they were able to make shoot well by changing to reloads? I was given a Savage 7Rm by friend & for that reason I would like to use it some. That just seems like an awfully large group to fix. I normally use .270 A bolt. So this is new to me. I was shooting Rem.150 CL Thanks
 

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Welcome to ShootersForum, 89redtruck. Rules are to be nice and join in.

I have never made that much of an improvement simply by switching from factory to handloads, but I have seen my own loads vary from 4" down to 1", so I'm sure it's possible. Before you give up on the rifle, I'd do three things:

1) Give it a real thorough cleaning.
2) Make sure your scope mounts are secure.
3) Buy some Federal Premium, or other higher grade of ammo, to test with.

I have also seen other little things be fixed on a rifle that shrunk groups from 6" or more, down to sub-MOA, so it can certainly be done. Savage rifles have a good reputation for accuracy, so I'm guessing your gun can be fixed.

Hope to see your posts around the forum! :)
 

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yea, what brrom said times 2... the Savages are inherently amazingly accurate rifles.

I agree and think the scope may be loose or some other mechanical issue.

No Savage I ever heard of or shot would give 4 inch group at 100 yards. 1 inch maybe.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the welcome & suggestions. I had a Redfield 3X9 Revolution put on with Leupold base & rings. The rifle isn’t new, I didn’t mention that. But it doesn’t look abused or worn out. You’ve encouraged me to not give up on it yet, that just seemed like an irreparable group. I’m glad it has potential.
 

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i have a tang saftey ruger 77 in 7 mag that was grouping about like your rifle, 3"-4" groups with most bullets i tried so i checked the rate of twist and found it to be about 2.5" slower than specified and the bore was also rather loose. it is however a sub 1" gun with 120gr ballistic tips and RL22 so i sent it of to a buddy of mine in iowa to use for coyote hunting.
i wonder what vintage your savage is? prior to the mid 90's the barrel quality varied as did the overall quality... considering the fact that when savage changed hands in the mid 90's that is the cut off for factory/warranty work it would be worth your time to try to figure out when it was made.
for what it's worth i really like the barnes 120gr ttsx bullets for deer hunting...
 

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My buddy had a Remington 700 in 25-06 that was shooting paper plate size groups. I told him the barrel probably needed a good cleaning. I sent him my cleaning rod and told him what copper solvent to get. He brought it over. I loaded up a few bullets that his dad shot in it. I shot a 1/2 inch group with the gun.

Now it was either his shooting ability or the barrel being dirty.

I had a Savage in 7mm RM that I could not get to shoot. It had a really light weight barrel. At the time I relied on one of my inlaws to load for me. I probably could have got the gun to shoot but I sold it.


Darin
 

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Are you shooting from a fixed bench rest in which the gun is more so locked in, or are you in control? I'm just curious as it is hard to accurately tell your grouping if it could be something in your shooting form or such, not saying your a bad shot but we all get the jitters and jumps sometimes.
 

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I've never owned a rifle that 4" groups was the best it would do a 100yds. I've bought a lot of abused/shot out Remington 700's for the action and they would still shoot better than that. I would take the rifle down and start from scratch, starting with the mounting of the action in the stock. If a wood stock, make sure it's not soft and eaten up by cleaning solvents. Inlet the barrel channel so there's no chance the stock can be causing an uneven pressure on the barrel. Check the trigger pull and if adjustable, bring it down to no more than three pounds, but no less than two pounds for a hunting rifle. Try to find the recommended torque for the action you have and torque the screw, a little on each one at a time.

Now, take the scope and mounting base off. Bed the mounting base with Devcon but only torque the screws about 75% or recommended torque. After 24 hours cure, remove one screw at the time,clean the holes and screws good with something that will take the release agent and any oils off. Put a small drop of blue Loctite on the last two or three threads and torgue it to recommend torque. Mount the rings on the base and lap the rings until you get at least a 75% contact surface and make sure to index mark the tops and bottoms of rings so you can be sure you get them back on the same way each time. Place the scope in the rings and torque the screws to the recommended torque. After getting the scope back on, mount the action or whole gun in a vice or some way that it will not move around. Sight the scope and zero in on a cross mark about 25 yards away and slowly more the adjust the windage and elevation through most of their range while looking through the scope, make sure it's moving every click. Be sure to note you starting point on the turrents and bring it back to the orignal turrent setting, them make sure the rectical is centered back exactly where you started.

Next you do a deep clean of the barrel and if you have a high powered magnifier of some sort, look close at the crown. Make sure it's still nice and sharp all the way around.

If it's still shooting four inch groups after this, you have the worst shooting rifle I've ever seen. That, or you need to go back to basic shooting 101 .
 

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As others have stated GIVE IT A VERY, VERY GOOD CLEANING. Check the action screws, scope mounting hardware and one other thing that hasn't been mentioned, check the barrel crown to make sure it hasn't been damaged. If it has it can really ruin accuracy but it is easy to fix. A lot of rifles can be brought around with a good recrown job.
 

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+1 for cleaning and checking mounting hardware including action screws.

I took out my custom .243 this year and it had always shoot really good, well under 1" at 100. It was shooting 1-2" groups...... had me puzzled till I checked the action screws.... loose.... ah ha...back down well under 1" again!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I was shooting from fixed position. I was at Bass Pro in Springfield, using their tunnel, so very best of conditions. I waited between shots for barrel to cool. I’ve been shooting for 51yrs. 9yrs old when started (kinda old huh?) & I’ve never had a gun shoot that poorly either. But I’m capable of that kind of shooting without a good rest. The trigger pull isn’t heavy – but not crisp either – but with the rest I had (led sled type) I don’t think it was much of an issue. When I got home I used approx. ½ bottle of Hoppes #9 with empty water bottle taped over crown. After Hoppes settled in bottle it was green. Is that copper?? Recommendations on bore cleaner? You guys have given me some encouragement. As said earlier, I’m not selling the rifle (gift from friend) so I would like for it to shoot! I think I will clean it again. I’ve done several things mentioned except checking action screws, hadn’t crossed my mind. But you guys don’t believe the Remington 150 core lokt are the major problem? This is a great site!! Thanks again
 

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Bore Tech C4 works good on the carbon. They say to use a nylon brush, but don't be affraid to use a bronze this time. Follow directions, pushing several wet patch from chamber end to muzzle, let it soak a few minutes and make several passes with a wet brush. Push a couple of dry patches through and then some more wet, soak and brush, again followed by dry. Do this until the patches start looking somewhat clean.

Sweets 7.62 or KG-12 works good on the copper.

After cleaning carbon, follow the directions on the Sweets or KG-12. When the copper is gone, no color on the patches, then go back with a couple more passes with the carbon solvent. When clean, dry it good and add a thin coat of oil until ready to shoot. Wipe the oil out and shoot.

Don't forget to work the first couple of inches beyound the throat extra well. This is where you get the hardest and most difficult carbon to get out. Might even want to look at getting some Tubb's maintenance rounds, http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=623703. Those will clean the throat area pretty good, just follow the directions.
 

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My Ruger Compact 260 shot 5 to 6 " groups when I first bought it. I noticed a slight nick in the crown. Ruger would fix it, but I'd have to ship it to them and I didn't want to wait, so I paid a local gunsmith to re-crown it. When it came back 4 days later (super turnaround and a super guy) I did the break-in procedure of lapping the bore, then did the shoot-clean-shoot-clean routine. After that it's .75" - 1.25" groups with several different loads.

(My new signature pic is the new crown.)
 

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Clean, clean, clean. I'm a clean freak when it comes to my firearms. Butch's Bore Shine and Shooters Choice are both great copper solvent cleaners as well. I don't recomend letting the cleaning solvent soak in the bore over night and I think the directions mention that as well. Get a good cleaning jag, preferrably stainless. That way the solvents won't react with the brass in the jag. The same goes for the brush. I use nylon primarily however, with a very dirty bore you may need the brass. I'll soak my bore on a very dirty gun for about an hour then brush and wipe, repeatedly until clean. Best of luck. Oh ya, don't get discouraged. It'll take some time and elbow grease.
 

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i have used quite a bit of the barnes copper cleaner and it will definitely get the copper out but it is a bit harsh... very effective tho!
for my "everyday" or routine cleaning i really like the break free clp foaming bore cleaner very mild but a really good cleaner.
 

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Bunch of good info here already!

However, this is how I'd proceed. Make sure the rifle is Ok as far a crown, actions screws tight, scope and screws tight etc. and if every thing appears to be ok AND the barrel is free of copper fouling, FLOAT THAT BARREL if it isn't already!

If the action has not yet been glas bedded, I like to bed the action Before floating the barrel as the barrel will help hold things in place during the glas bedding process.

I like to create "pillers" with the glas during the bedding process, and remove a fair amount of wood behind the recoil lug - leave enough wood to hold the action in place during the bedding.

Then after the glas is set, relieve the action bolt/screw hole through the piller of fiberglas with a drill just big enough to prevent any bolt to bedding contact.

I have seen bedding and floating cut the groups of a rifle in half.

From that point, choose a quality bullet - something like a Nosler Partition if this is a hunting rifle - and work up loads with a powder shown in a number of books to give good results.

If the groups are not where you want them, try another powder and keep working this process until the results are favorable.

If they never get where you want them, it may be time to try another bullet brand/style.

Unless the rifle is a real dog, this process will usually bring the groups down to much below the 4" level.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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i have used quite a bit of the barnes copper cleaner and it will definitely get the copper out but it is a bit harsh... very effective tho!
for my "everyday" or routine cleaning i really like the break free clp foaming bore cleaner very mild but a really good cleaner.
Ditto on the Break Free foaming cleaner. Put it in barrel(plug crown and keep it out of the action) leave it then come back later to clean, repeat as necessary until bore has no copper colored return on patches. Thoroughly clean, check all the screws and then inspect the entire bore for irregularities. I had a new Winchester barrel that had a problem with the lands and grooves in the first 2 inches that would not group on paper. Saw the barrel problem and sent back to Winchester. They replaced the barrel at no charge and sent back their target with .5 inch group. It has continued to be very accurate since.
Hope your turns into a shooter for you.
 

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Yep, bad barrels do happen. Had a bad one on a Browning not so long ago, and years back, had a Winchester post-64 model 70 which had a tight spot in the barrel.

Don't know how a tight spot can occur, but it was clearly there!

Pressures went nuts, REALLY FAST!!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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It could depend on your gun and the twist rate of your barrel. I have a .308 I am lucky to stay on paper with some bullets but my 180 gr Corelokt will group 3/4" or better consistently. Factory or handload, it doesn't seem to make as much difference as the bullet I use. My brothers 7MM Rem mag is the same way, bullet sensitive. Other guns I have don't seem to care what I push down the barrel as long as my sights are adjusted for that bullet. Just a suggestion, try different bullet weights and types before you get ready to toss the gun. One brother has a 30-30 that shoots factory .308's just fine, my others brothers gun prefers cast bullets .310" but on paper there isn't a nickles worth of difference as long as they get the bullets they want.
 
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