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Been lurking here for quite a while and decided I needed some help.

I am in the final decision process on my current project and I would appreciate if I could some feed back and any advice you can spare.

I have a Double barrel Crescent hammered 16 g. that is the lucky candidate for my Cape Gun Project. It has fluid steel barrels and is in overall excellent shape especially for being over 100 years old.

So here is what is happening. The barrels are getting cut back to 24" and a set of flip up express sights are being soldered on.

Then I am having a rifle barrel turned to fit the chamber of the right barrel and tapered down to minimum diameter (my gunsmith will determine that for me) Then a disc will be cut to fit the end of the barrel with the center that fits over the rifle barrel being drilled off center by .020" and a counter sunk set screw on the side of the disk. (Disc is a deceiving term as the disk will be 3/4" long)
Any how this disc will be used to regulate the rifle barrel.

So To the actual point; I am leaning towards the 40-90 and the 38-90 for this project. What do you guys think of the project? Also what do you have to say about the 2 choices and which one would you go with and for what reasons. If you do not like either of these two choices, what one would you pick?

Thanks for your opinions and comments.
 

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40-90 or 38-90 or what?


I love the idea - removable inserts convert your bird gun to a cape gun.

I think I'd go with the .405 Winchester, as it has a smaller case head (?) and therefore more "meat" around the chamber. Plenty of brass, bullets and load data for this choice....

OR the old-school choice would be maybe a 38-55, for all of the same reasons as above. If love and metric in the same sentence can apply, the 9.3x74R or 72R could fit - though I'd stay away fröm pressure if I were you.

Also consider an insert in .22 Hornet for all-round versatility....

Also I think I'd have screw-in chokes put in, then use the threads for the regulation nut on the insert with a longitudinal set scew so the nut can be adjusted fröm the muzzle with a choke tube wrench....

Good luck on your build!
 

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I have a Russian TOZ 66 (Greener cross bolt action) that I've wanted to convert in a similar manner to a double 50-140. I have seen one (same gun as mine) done as a combination gun with a 9.3 x 74R bbl on one side. I'd stick with black powder only cartidges, but as large a caliber as possible. Good luck and keep us posted.
 

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hmmm, barrel inserts . . . indeed they work well, if setup properly. Are you thinking of the insert being a permanent installation, or a removeable insert? Since 1975 I've come up with 19 12 gauge inserts of varying chambers: .22 lr, 9mm, .38 Spcl, .357 mag,.45 ACP, .44 mag, .45 Colt, .30-30, .30-40, .45-70 with there being more of one in the same chambering. I would suggest you take a look at www.mcace.com, as Ace had a variety of chamberings, as well as there might be some ideas spring forth for you via his information/web site. I've yet to have made a .50-70 insert, but it's in the works, just not on the front burner at this time.
The .22LR, 9mm, .45 ACP and one .45 Colt are chamber length, ie: 2 3/4" in length. Some of the others are from 8" to 18" in length. I primarily use these in a cut-down hammer single shot 12 gauge, having added a receiver sight and a rifle front sight on an old Williams ramp I had laying around.
These inserts 'do' shoot well when properly loaded for and maintaining consistant positioning in the chamber/barrel. The rear of the insert is the external dimensions of a 12 gauge 2 1/2" shell, with the front of the inserts being fitted with an o-ring (acting as a centering device in the shotgun tube). Put a lil' bit of light lube on the o-ring and shove the insert into a clean barrel and you'll have a most versatile outfit.
One thing to consider with using inserts: figure the shotgun you'll use it in has a large diameter firing pin, hence it is safer to stay with low pressure cartridges. Besides, it's more fun to tinker with the older cartridges anyway.
As for your particular 'project', you mght consider using a .45-70 insert (either fixed or removeable - that way you could change cartridges wanting to be used by merely changing inserts).....say one in .45-70 and another one in .30-30 or .30-40 Krag. I use a Speer Plinker 100 gr bullet ahead of 10. grs of Unique for about 1,500+ fps, then if hunting will use a 220 gr factory equivilant load.
Other chambering options to consider might be: .40-70 SS (using a .405 Winchester case for this chambering - cut back to 2.5" and resized) this way you'd have readily available brass and a low pressure 'darn-good-cartridge' for a fine deer/elk or hog shotgun/rifle Cape Gun setup.
Another thing to consider is the thickness of the insert barrel. If you use a .30 caliber barrel insert, the sidewall of the insert barrel will be thicker (heavier) than if you use a .40 or .45 caliber barrel. This makes some difference if you'd like to carry it afield for a long days outing!
Long ago a friend in Alaska use to take sidexside Berreta shotguns for customers, rework them with permanently installed insert barrels chambered for .45-90, as the .45-90 held more powder for use with moose n' large bears. Being yours is a 16 gauge, and only using one side for an insert (now if you have two removeable inserts, you could use it as a Cape Gun or a Double Rifle!!!!), then the weight would be less than if using inserts in both barrels.
What is your intended hunting use of your-soon-to-be Cape Gun project?
Hope this helps you out some.
Kindly keep us lads posted of your project....these kind are just plain fun . . .
outsidebear
 

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Years ago, a gun mag. ran a story about a guy who had a Ruger Red Label in 20 ga. He had another set of barrels made in 45-70. I don't recall how much pressure the frame could take, but he was going to Alaska, and was 'good-to-go' from ptarmigan to Moose. Good luck on your project...think about the 45-70...tons of load data...lot's of bullet options....very versatile!
 

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If you're considering the cartridge barrel of your cape gun as a black powder cartridge I believe I'd stay away from the longer, higher capacity cases. Just from my experience I've had more problems getting them to shoot well. Case capacities of from between 50-80 grains have been the best for me.
 
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