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Hello everyone,
I am thinking of getting an auto loader in either 45 or 40, but haven't decided which way to go. I am looking and leaning toward a Kimber in 45 ACP, but also really like the Glock 22, in 40 S&W. any tips?

Thanks Much
Juan Tedman
 

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IMO, you probably can't go wrong with either one.  The Kimber 45's i've seen are all 1911 style so you'd probably want to make sure you're comfortable with 'cocked and locked' before going with one of those.  I recently picked up an autoloader and based my selection of model on the one that fit my hand the best and felt most comfortable to me [and i'm sure the salesman was mighty tired of me by the time i was done with this] and the caliber by what i considered big enough and readily available [component-wise].
 

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Nawth East Moderatah
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 I have 2 Sigs,.40smith 229 and .45auto 245.  Because they are Sigs, the two are FLAWLESS!
 Having shot the .45 for many years, in the form of a 1911a1 and only having the .40smith for about 6mos., I'm partial to the low and slow .45.in fact of allthe guns Icould carry concealed, in my opinion you just can't beat the .45auto!  John Moses Browning knew what he was creating!
  I have shot about 500 rounds of .40smith, it's a good gun (229) and a potent round, but why re-invent the wheel? The .45auto was DESIGNED for the military for one shot stops.  I shoot and TRUST the .45.
 The only reason I purchased the .40 was because it was a L.E. gun> 3  twelve rnd. mags. and all the goodies to relaod it for &#36400.00.  After shooting it for a few 100 rounds, i can say it is a good round, heck 3/4 of the L.E. in the USA use it.   Hope this helps in some way!!!
 

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I think that you should shoot them side by side at your local range and make that decision yourself.  My opinion is that the .40 has all of the power and "knockdown" that the .45 has and will hold more bullets.
-Mike
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I'm surprised that this topic hasn't generated more discussion.

For social purposes, with good factory defense ammo, the one-shot-stop %'s are about the same.

For hunting, my best .40 S&W handload was a 200 gr. WFNGC bullet at just under 1,000fps.  Best .45 ACP load (so far) is a 255gr. Keith SWC at just under 900fps.

Bowling pin shooting - definitely the .45.  Bigger bullets take them off the table better.

Other than that, it's just personal preference.  I do like Glocks for carry.
 

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MikeG,

Speaking of a good hunting load for the .40.  I recently loaded the 200WFNGC over 8.0gr Blue Dot using Starline cases, CCI SP primers and clocked 1080fps from my Glock 22 with a Federal Arms drop in 4.6" bbl.
8.5gr BD - 1135fps!
I felt comfortable with the 8gr load, the 8.5gr load flattened the primer, but still was within factory measurements (using the Waters pressure testing method).
-Mike
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Mike, my load was 7.5 gr. of Blue Dot with that bullet.  I settled on that as I still had a factory barrel and just a few tenths more and the cases started to look a little pregnant.
 

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If by performance potential, you mean accuracy, I cannot address that.
But if you mean power, I can.

I have pushed the 45acp and the 40s&w cartridges  to the point of failure in several guns. My testing suggests to me that the potential is proportional to their size. Volume wise, the 45acp is bigger and more powerful.

More caveats:
I don't know nearly as much about 40sw load development as Mcnett.
I am not taking SAAMI maximum pressure specifications into consideration.
 

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Beartooth Regular
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I don't hold a lot of stock in most of the "real world shooting data" available to the public at large, but that's another topic unto itself. Excluding the marketing hype of the ammo factories and their latest wonder bullets, I believe when similar velocities are considered the bigger bore always wins.

Throughout my experience of almost 20 years in action pistol competition of various types and at levels including state championships, I believe the .45 ACP to be the more accurate round. This is particularly true of stock, defensive-minded guns. With match-tuned pistols the accuracy gap narrows quite a bit but with concessions to absolute reliability in both cartridges.

Increased capacity of the .40 S&W is largely a non-issue anymore with the 10 round restrictions imposed by the Feds. I can't see paying the prices for grandfathered high capacity mags that are advertised these days.

So for me, and my suggestion to Juan, is the .45 ACP.
 

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Dear Juan:

You haven't said what you are going to do with this gun.  Will it be for plinking, competition, home defense or hunting?  The answer to this question will make a large difference.  

If you are using it for defense will you carry it concealed?  Have you fired both of the sized guns you are talking about?  Do they each fit your hand properly?  To me proper trigger reach, centered grip and frame size fitted to "my" hand are more inportant than power.  I have to hit 'em first.

If you choose to hunt with either of these weapons I cannot comment because I don't use either for hunting.   If you are going to plink there is no need to worry about power differences.  But because you are asking about power I'm assuming that you are thinking about defense.  

For me either caliber works well.  I have a .45 and a .40 Glock, love them both.  For defensive purposes, especially home defense I use Mag-Safe ammunition.  While expensive ($3.00 per round)  they provide about double factory performance in foot pounds, at least that's what they claim.  For me however they do provide a real advantage in reduced recoil and therefore visibly quicker second shot target acquisition.  If they do perform as claimed, especially in the prevention of excessive overpenetration I will be quite happy.  In a life and death situation $3.00 is nothing.  Obviously, I don't plink with this ammo.  

With regards to your choice of gun, if you are defensive minded here then choose simplicity, and for me that is Glock.  No hammers to cock, no safeties to disengage, no edges to snag on clothing, just pull the trigger, a trigger pull that is the same from the first pull to the last.  Few of us really go to the range enough to say we can manipulate a cocked and locked draw with safety and efficiency under the stress of a real gun fight.  Remember, you are only half as good in a gun fight as you are on your best day on the range.  Have fun with whatever gun you choose.  Or better yet, buy one of each, say one full size and one compact.
 

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Juan,
I don't think you can go wrong with either one.  Both are fine choices.  I personally like the 45 and the Kimber is a fine housing for it.  If you are looking at pushing the 40, have you considered the 10mm?
 

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Gentlemen,

I am impressed with the respectful and gentlemanly nature of the debate, as normally comparisons like these take on a much more personal flair, complete with wailing, knashing of teeth and rending of garments.  I am proud to belong to a forum that displays so much decorum and class.

Anyway, my 2 cents.  

It occurs to me, that service pistol rounds tend to lie into the "tastes great....less filling" type of debate, and both of these rounds have a great deal of promise.

I think in pistol rounds, a fellow ought to decide if he wants his round to open quickly, or penetrate dependably, or hedge his bets for both.  The 9mm parabellum, bless its heart, seems to be the quick expander for automatic pistol hollowpoint service rounds, but is often critisized for lack of penetration, (remember Miami?) While the 45 acp seems to be the choice of everyone that favors penetration above all else.  So. if a fellow wants to hedge his bets, then the 40 smith seems to be the compromise round of choice, which by all rights should give reasonable performance in both respects.

Reckon if i only had one pistol to use for defense, i would opt for a 40 smith.  Thankfully, that is not the case, so i don;t have to compromise.  

AS far as the pistols go, i do own and carry glocks and a kimber for fun, sport, work, and profit, and both are exceptional platforms.  The Kimber is by far the easiest pistol to shoot straight.

Have a wonderful evening,

Steve
 

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I load for, and shoot both calibers (along with 9mm and .44 mag) - on the scale of fun to shoot - they all are - although the recoil level for new shooters kind of follows the caliber. On a scale of accuracy the 9mm and 45 have a long track record, the 40 and 44 less so. If you load for medium/consistent pressure levels they all have the same potential.

If you want pure stopping power then I believe the .45 wins that contest - max FBI results seem to show the 185 grain Speer Gold Dot as the winner by a hair above the Hornady XTP in 185/45. The .40 S&W is just a hair below that in penetration/expansion numbers with the 165-180 grain bullets.

The .44 mag is the king, but it kind of punches a hole through things a bit much for defense uses :)

The 45 ACP round was developed to stop (I believe) The Phillipines berserker type folks back in the early 1900's - kind of an early PCP style druggie that wouldn't stop... the 38's of the day just didn't cut it...
 

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If you are going to through hunting into the mix scrap both those guns and get a .45 Super from Springfield Armory. 230 gr bullets at 1250 fps and it will shoot factor power .45 acp for defense and plinking  etc. Also check out Acescustom45.com
 

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I have personally seen a .451 Detonics- virtually the same as the "new" .45 Super, just 25 years ago- and a couple of 10mm 1911's turn themselves into parts guns very quickly. The 1911 is an excellent design for anti-personnel defense and target shooting, but a big game gun it ain't. Juicing-up the gun with pressures it was never designed for isn't a good idea.
 

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Hello i have a question.Hoping someone could help me.I have a sigma 40s&w  about 500 rounds fired.The problam  is that since i got it it has always jammed.The last time i whent to the range i took some winchester ammo its the best result i have had 1 jam out of the box.I still took it back to the place that i bought it they told me to polish the piece(barrel) where the round slides in to.Does any one have any other suggestion.I like the gun just didnt know i would have so many problems whit it.I dont whant to sell it and give the problems  to someone else.I have tried different ammo,what other ammo do any of you recomend out there.             Thanks RUBEN
 

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RUBEN,

In all honesty sell the dreadful thing. They are a poor excuse of a pistol and Smith & Wesson should be ashamed for putting it on the market. The gunshop from whom I buy most of my firearms refuses to carry them after all the returns. I appreciate your concern for selling a dud but if this is a defensive weapon should you trust the safety of your family to such a questionable firearm? You could return it to S&W for repair but if it doesn't improve by a dramatic amount then ditch it.
 

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You are right about that Bill, but the Sigma is just one more reason that S&W should be ashamed of themselves.  There are other reasons too, I'd suggest selling the S&W and buy a gun from a company that truly supports those that enjoy shooting sports and the 2nd Amendment.
 
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