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FA18CUB, you can probably use the .411 and .412 bullets depending on how your barrel slugs out. I've been thinking about a conversion on an 1895 replica Browning but think the .411Hawk would be handier and less expensive in the long run. RKBA!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Is the weight and style of bullets available hear a little more geared to .41 pistols then the .405 Win rifle?  Why would the .411 hawk be "cheaper in the long run"?
 

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FA,
Have you went out and got another fine firearm to make us all jealous?  Don't tell me you've wrangled yourself one of the new 1895's in the 405.  You da man.

It did appear to me that the BT bullets were designed more for 41 mag than the 411 Hawk or 405 Winny (except for that super model 300 grainer).  I've just ordered my 1895 (in 270, because I'm behind the times and because I was going to wildcat it anyway), I'm seriously considering the 400 Brown-Whelen wildcat.  Yeah, it'll shoot the 411 bullets too, but performance seem to be a little better than the Hawk version.  I guess the biggest reason is that I just don't have a lot of sense.  I would think the 405 Winchester in the 1895 being production and all would be much cheaper than the Hawk or BW.  Reloading components are readily available for the Hawk on Z-hat's website, but their rifles are pretty spendy, well worth it, no doubt, but spendy.  I'll be honest, I just wanted to start my path to wildcatting and fully degrading myself on the first try, hence the BW.  I'm not real sure about cast bullets for the 405, I'll leave that to the experts, Marshall, Sir James, MikeG, ID, arkypete, caster and the other assorted cast of characters.  I had planned on shooting the 400 grain Barnes and the assorted 350's in the BW.  I would like to try BT's bullets for the BW, but was wanting a little heavier bullet than is offered, although the 300 gr does look mighty interesting.  I would think the 300 gr would perform in the 405, though if you are looking for a bear load, seems the sectional density might be a bit low for the type of penetration needed.  But like I said, the other fine folks here know a lot more about it than I do and please take their recommendation over mine.
 

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If you are going the wildcat 41 caliber route any way consider modifying to.416. You will dramatically increase your selection of available bullets, including BTB's 375 grain which should be versatile.
 

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Fireplug,
Since the 1895 I have (or is on it's way) is based on the '06 case, I'm kinda limited without cutting the bolt face (I'm not that brave yet).  From the information I've gathered, the 411 is the absolute limit on opening the '06 without headspace problems.  Guess the 416 is for some other fatter case.
 

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CUB,

The .411 Hawk will be a great deal cheaper since the cases are based on the cheap, universally available .30-06 cartridge. The .405 is neither.
 

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Mr. Bill,
I agree with you about the shooting costs, the Hawk and the Whelen cases can be made from the '06 or its variant cases, but the cost of converting the rifle to the Hawk can buy a lot of brass.  If Mr. Cub is going to buy a new rifle, he can buy a 405 off the shelf and would just need the reloading components.  The increase in expense is the cost of the 405 brass over the '06 brass.  If he buys a new rifle and then has to have it rebarreled or rebored, that's a lot of brass...

Just a different view.  I'm going the way of the Hawk (except a different '06 wildcat) but not because of cost, just because I want to.  Seems to me it'd be cheaper to buy a couple hundred empty 405 cases than to have a 'smith do the work to make a Hawk.  I could be wrong like so many many times before though.  <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
 

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The tarriff on the new Winchester 1895 in .405Winchester is going to run $1000+ anyway. I think I can find someone to  rebarrel my Browning cheaper than that. There is no need to change the bolt face, just rebarrel, headspace, and shoot. The other way is to have Virgin Valley or Bullberry do an Encore barrel in the caliber for a carbine or rifle. When I get it done, I'll go with the .411Hawk, Hawk bullets, and bullets from the LBT mold I've got that throws a .412 bullet of 385gr. with gas check. Amazing what you find on ebay!
 

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41FAN,
Oops, I think I misunderstood.  Sorry 'bout that.  For some reason I assumed (you know what kind of trouble assuming can get you into  <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->) that FA18CUB was wanting a 1895 Winchester (becuase of the 405 statement and the Win being offered up in that this year).  I had assumed he was going to buy a new rifle for whatever purpose.  I definitely agree that if you already have one and are going to rebarrel to something else, the 411 may indeed be cheaper.  Sorry folks.
 

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Alyeska,

My mistook, I reread the string and FA18cub said he has a Winchester 1895 in .405 on the way. I just shy away from the $1.25 per case 'cause I've got Scots blood in me, lad! Ya know I might lose a piece of brass at the range or while huntin'. Since I am thrifty, I like to buy base (project) guns cheap and spend money making them the way I want instead of the way Winchester does. 'Sides, I wasn't born with the silver spoon in me gob! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
 

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41Fan,
Yes sir, I do know what you mean indeed.  I still have a wooden spoon!!!  Course, it's about the size of a toothpick now.  Seems money is always too tight when it comes the shooting endeavors.

Salute!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have put the order in but no luck yet. I received a Hornady 2002 catalog with my bullet order today. They are bringing out the .405 with a 300gr bullet. It is the ballistic twin of their (new this year) .444 Hornady Light Magnum ammo. Pretty impressive for the .405 and .444. Should work well up north(and down there)! Both generate 3200 lb-ft at the muzzle. The .405 has 2282 at 100 yds and the .444 has 2153 lb-ft. It should be a fun rifle and as far as brass goes...I am just going to buy a bunch up front. The real problem looks like bullets worth reloading! Hint Hint Marshall!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
No - I would never rebarrel my 1895 .30-06! Those two go together as well as the 1895 and.405!
 

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FA18CUB,
Yeah, I agree with you about the 1895 and the 30/06, mine is a 270 win and since not an original chambering is easy to make the sacrifice.

Marshall's 280 and 300gr bullets look like they would be a great combo for the 405.  Especially that 300 grainer.  Woof.  Ought to be great moose bullets.  I plan on trying some as soon as the rebarrel job is done on mine.  Of course I have it on order, so I'm way ahead of myself.

Take care.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I was thinking of something a touch heavier since we might see a little velocity increse from a cast bullet. So maybe we can get heavier and go the same velocity as a jacket bullet.
 

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Oh Marshalllll.....  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
 

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Someone Rang??? <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->

I'm all ears!  If you gent have something for the .405 you want to see happen, lets get serious and get the wheels turning.... it does take time to get custom molds and sizing dies turned out!

Let me know... we'll get something happening!

God Bless,

Marshall
 
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