I have decided I want to try some of the heavier bullets for my .41 but I'm having a hard time finding data. I got a box of Beartooth 280 grain bullets and am really excited about them. I think they will drop hogs and black bears in their tracks. There is a limited amount of data at loadswap.com. I think I want to try Win 296, H110 and possibly Unique, but I'm not sure if the Unique will handle bullets this heavy in the .41. Anybody out there have any reliable data or advice?
.41 Mag Data needed for Beartooth 280 gr
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Further research seems to indicate I can go as high as 21 grains of either the 296 or H110 and 8.5 of Unique. I think I will start at 19 or even less and work up. Still not sure I want to try the Unique. Would appreciate advice from anyone who has used heavier cast stuff in the .41. I have a 5 1/2" Blkhwk new model and a 4 5/8" 3 screw Blkhwk. The 3 screw is stout and in excellent condition, but it is a 4 digit serial number and I really don't want to send anything down the tube that could damage it.
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Saw some data on 265 grn cast using 296 and H110 and 20.8 grn. was the max so a 280 grn bullet is probably a little less. Since those powders always come with a warning not to reduce max loads by more than 3%, I'd speculate that 19 grn would be OK. I saw a 300 grn load where 19 grns of H 110 was considered max.
The only loads I saw using Unique were with 200 to 220 grn bullets.
If I had to guess your MV, I'd say around 1300 fps with your barrel length. You would probably shoot right through a decent sized pig lengthwise and with that big meplat you'll do alot damage. He ain't going nowhere!
I've got some Beartooth cast for my 454, 280, 300 and 345 grn and I cannot wait to see the effect on game. Very nice bullets with very consistent weight. Planning on using the 280s on deer and the 345 on a bison.
I took Marshall's advice and bought a Redding profile crimp die. I haven't had a bullet jump crimp yet using that. Supposedly this is the one crimp die that works for heavy bullets with heavy loads.
The only loads I saw using Unique were with 200 to 220 grn bullets.
If I had to guess your MV, I'd say around 1300 fps with your barrel length. You would probably shoot right through a decent sized pig lengthwise and with that big meplat you'll do alot damage. He ain't going nowhere!
I've got some Beartooth cast for my 454, 280, 300 and 345 grn and I cannot wait to see the effect on game. Very nice bullets with very consistent weight. Planning on using the 280s on deer and the 345 on a bison.
I took Marshall's advice and bought a Redding profile crimp die. I haven't had a bullet jump crimp yet using that. Supposedly this is the one crimp die that works for heavy bullets with heavy loads.
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Maybe I can help a little. My hunting load for my 4 5/8" Blackhawk 41 mag is the BTB 265gr with 20.0gr of H-110 in a Starline case with a Federal large mag pistol primer. It does a nominal 1,200 fps out of my gun. Except for firelapping, the gun is stock.
I never shot the 280gr bullet out of my gun. If you do, consider this. From an internal ballistics point of view, the 280gr gives you a double whammy chance to spike pressures. Instead of the .450 nose sticking out of the case that the 265gr bullet has, the 280gr bullet has a .420 nose. All that extra lead has to go somewhere and makes the bullet go deeper in the case along with adding to the friction of moving the bullet out of the case and down the bore. Since the bullet is heavier, all that weight also makes for a bullet going deeper in the case.
None of this is bad. It probably makes for a very accurate bullet that takes game well. In my opinion though, just dropping the powder charge to 19.0 gr of H-110 and trying it out would probably be way over max. Getting H-110 to properly ignite behind this heavy invasive bullet would be one of my last concerns. Just for me and with my gun/components, I'd start the loading at 16.0gr of H-110 and work up from there. You have to decide what's best for your gun. I would expect (as written about in Marshall's book) you come up on the sweet spot where your velocity leaps up and extreme spreads go down. With such a heavy invasive bullet that happens pretty quickly so you've got to be very careful. But you should end up with a nice load. It will probably shoot very high though.
Good luck.
I never shot the 280gr bullet out of my gun. If you do, consider this. From an internal ballistics point of view, the 280gr gives you a double whammy chance to spike pressures. Instead of the .450 nose sticking out of the case that the 265gr bullet has, the 280gr bullet has a .420 nose. All that extra lead has to go somewhere and makes the bullet go deeper in the case along with adding to the friction of moving the bullet out of the case and down the bore. Since the bullet is heavier, all that weight also makes for a bullet going deeper in the case.
None of this is bad. It probably makes for a very accurate bullet that takes game well. In my opinion though, just dropping the powder charge to 19.0 gr of H-110 and trying it out would probably be way over max. Getting H-110 to properly ignite behind this heavy invasive bullet would be one of my last concerns. Just for me and with my gun/components, I'd start the loading at 16.0gr of H-110 and work up from there. You have to decide what's best for your gun. I would expect (as written about in Marshall's book) you come up on the sweet spot where your velocity leaps up and extreme spreads go down. With such a heavy invasive bullet that happens pretty quickly so you've got to be very careful. But you should end up with a nice load. It will probably shoot very high though.
Good luck.
If you got Marshals bullets you should probably ask your question on his site shootersforum.com They are a good bunch over there, with an extensive amount of knowledge.
I know they can answer your question there as I have asked things over there about the .41 mag. It seems to be quite popular.
I know they can answer your question there as I have asked things over there about the .41 mag. It seems to be quite popular.
Bill M, first, thanks for the reply. Thanks to everyone who replied. I went to the range this weekend with a few loads I had worked up, from 18 to 19 grains of both Win. 296 and H110. I was happy with the velocities I got, the best being 19 grains of H110averaging 1261 fps. I was also surprised by the spreads. That particular load ranged from 1252 to 1268 and a few even tighter than that, down to as little as 5-6 fps difference in 5 rounds tested. I am going to take your advice of going back down to 16 grains. For the size of game I will take, hogs and the possibility of walking up on a black bear, I think I have room to give. I am also interested in trying the 265 grain bullet you are using. But here's my question, you mentioned it will probably shoot high. That's an understatment. I have yet to find a really accurate load I am happy with, but at 25 yards these loads weren't even on paper when I started. I'm talking 6-7 or more inches high. What is causing that? I feel like a real amature here. I wasn't expeting that.
BTW, I didn't see any signs of high pressure with these loads. All the brass and primers checked out ok and ejected cleanly. Having said that, I agree that I would be more comfortable with a lighter load that still did the job.
Thanks again for any advice.
BTW, I didn't see any signs of high pressure with these loads. All the brass and primers checked out ok and ejected cleanly. Having said that, I agree that I would be more comfortable with a lighter load that still did the job.
Thanks again for any advice.
Mike, what diameter bullet are you using in the 265g? I went with .411 on the 280g hoping to get better accuracy. I also realized they might help spike pressures. Also, I am using large pistol primers, not magnum. Some data I have found indicates magnum primers with H110 and some does not. Hodgdon's website doesn't list any primers that I have seen. Obviously, you have determined the LP Magnum primers work best for your loads. What made you decide to go with the Mag primers? I am interested in learning all I can about this load.
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Like Mike said, all thing being equal, the heavier the bullet, the higher the gun will shoot. And slowing the bullet will increase the bullets dwell time in the barrel so the barrel will lift higher before the bullet leaves it. I never could quite get the 265gr bullet at 1200fps to shoot to the sights (rear sight bottomed out) in my 4 5/8" Blackhawk. That is at 25 or 50 yards. It was not horrible so I just aimed a bit low and that fixed it. Eventually I had the gun Mag na Ported and that brought the gun well back into the sight adjustment along with the overall lack of muzzle rise which makes it more comfortable to shoot (not really a problem anyway though). Some guys have had a piece of metal welded to the top of the front sight and then file it into shape so they end up with a higher front sight.
I don't think any handgun powders are more associated with magnum primers than H-110 and WW296. 100% of my experience here has been with Federal LP Mag primers. Your standard primers are probably working well because of the heavy bullet helping with good initial powder burn before the bullet moves and also because it's warm out and the primer does not have to work all that hard to light the powder. Under less ideal conditions the magnum primers come into their own. Personally I just always shot mag primers with these powders. Be sure to drop the charges first before testing with a magnum primer.
The charges and velocities you list seem to track to me (I think your said 5 1/2" bbl). I just can't help but wonder if the pressue is not way too high. I have tons of experiece with the 44 mag but not so much with the 41 and that only with this one gun. So please just be cautious.
I don't think any handgun powders are more associated with magnum primers than H-110 and WW296. 100% of my experience here has been with Federal LP Mag primers. Your standard primers are probably working well because of the heavy bullet helping with good initial powder burn before the bullet moves and also because it's warm out and the primer does not have to work all that hard to light the powder. Under less ideal conditions the magnum primers come into their own. Personally I just always shot mag primers with these powders. Be sure to drop the charges first before testing with a magnum primer.
The charges and velocities you list seem to track to me (I think your said 5 1/2" bbl). I just can't help but wonder if the pressue is not way too high. I have tons of experiece with the 44 mag but not so much with the 41 and that only with this one gun. So please just be cautious.
Thanks for your help. I am already in the process of dismantling the rest of the 19gr loads I have. I am not the least interested in seeing how far I can push things, just want to come up with a good hunting load. Once I get that load established I probably won't fire another 50 rounds of it in my life time. The vast majority of my .41 shooting is with 210 gr. bullets and light loads, which actually is more than capable of dropping almost any game I'll come across. I am going to order some of the 265 grain bullets. Starting with the 16 grain load with mag. primers and working up makes sense. Thanks again.
Hey Bill, what is the OAL of your 265g BTB loads? I got 1.701" with the 285 grain bullets and notice the nose to crimp length of the 265 is .030 longer. I think I probably have the room in my Ruger, but it's got to be getting close to max.
Also, are you using .410 diameter or wider? I went with .411 on the 285s hoping for a little better accuracy.
Also, are you using .410 diameter or wider? I went with .411 on the 285s hoping for a little better accuracy.
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Sorry it took me a while to get back to you. It appears there is an error in the description between the 265 and 280gr bullets on the Beartooth site. It's an error in both our favors though. The Beartooth description for the 280gr bullets says it has a .420 nose. It also says the 265gr has a .450 nose. I just now measured it and the second part is wrong. The nose on the 265gr is .420 (give or take a bit). Thank you for asking me to measure it as the loaded rounds came out to 1.705" nominal. Same as for your 280gr. The plot thickens! So the pressures issues are probably less severe than I suggested. The shooting high issues are the same. I'm kinda excited as I will try some of those 280gr bullets now.
My 265 gr Beartooth bullets are all .410 bullets. Accuracy has always been as good or better than I can manage. Your ideal bullet diameter is somewhat dependent on the diameter of the cylinder throats of your guns. On a typical Blackhawk .410 or .411 should be fine.
Bill
I wondered if that wasn't the case. I think I will go ahead and try the 265g. I still have some of the 280's left so I'm not sure what I'll end up with. The season is coming up and I'm anxious to get a load worked up and ready. Sure do appreciate all your help and suggestions.
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