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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
What Lever rifle would be best suited for this cartridge. I got into this caliber when I had my Contender, this I sold but retained the brass. So I was just wondering. Anyway, I like the idea.

I wasn't sure which Forum to put this under, I hope no one takes offense.
 

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Rob,

I've never heard of the 414 Super Mag....give me a thumb nail about the cartridge so I know what we're talking about.

Lobo in West Virginia
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Lobo,
The 414 Super Mag is to the 41 Remington Mag like the 445 Super Mag is to the 44 Remington Mag.

It's a 41mag with brass that's about .25 inch longer. You can find a little more about it on the Dan Wesson web site. silhouette shooters use it most.

Me, I like it because I can load another caliber since I already have the bullets. It uses the same dies as the 41mag, only you use large rifle primers with the brass.

This is where some of my facts may err, Mr E. T. Gates is its designer. The same fellow that designed the 357 Max/supermag.

I was thinking about coverting my new Marlin 1894FG-41mag to this, thus the reason for the initial question. But I've just learned that Marlin is going to produce these this year and stop production. So Unless I can get another, the conversion is on hold.

Now, you know everything that I think I know! LOL
 

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414 Super-Mag 1.6" Case Length?

I think the 1.6" case length is gonna' be your biggest problem. For Marlin Model 94 actions, I think the very longest COL you can use in a lengthened action is 1.7". The standard length action is just way too short.

To shoot the full length 414 Super-Mag with 'bout anything but very light bullets or wadcutter type loads, you'll need to go with a 336 or Model 95.

GOOD LUCK!
 

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Kind of off-topic, but the .414 super mag is very close to the old .401WSL in size. OF course the .401WSL uses a .406" bullet, but the 1.5" case and 2.0" OAL is not too far off.

Can make .401WSL cases from 7.62X39 brass...some lathe and die work to make it semi-rim, but it blows out to very close to 1.55" (timmed to even, it's right at the 1.5" spec. for the .401WSL).

So..in 1910 could buy a Semi-auto that tossed .406" 200gr. bullets at 2100fps or 250gr. at 1850fps 9and this from a non-locked breech blow back). Not a **** of alot of Winchester 1910's around(I like mine fine, but it took a bit of looking to find one) but am working on a project to convert a Mini-30 to .410"X1.5".

Know a semi-auto is a far cry from a lever gun, but think that a 10 or 20 round mag. of 210gr. .410" bullets exiting at 2000 fps wouild get to be fun (and probably could increased the locked breech action to surpase the blow back ballistics).

They are right, the action length is kind of odd...the pistol caliber rifles are all too short, and the rifle-length cases come in actions a bit long. Too long is easier to fix than too short.
 

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If you must use a Marlin, use a 336 in 30-30. The case head size is roughly the same, and the action will handle the case length. All you need is a barrel and a reamer... Or perhaps you could have the old barrel rebored and rechambered. ==Bob
 

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Since you can already get the Win 1894 chambered in long, nearly straight cases (ex: .38-55, .375 Win.), I would suspect that it would be your best bet.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Boy, I've been waiting for 2 days so I could read you-alls comment. Thanks, I figured this was a dead thread.

Anyway, I'd like to hear more about the 401WSL and the semi auto that shoots it.

MikeG, I'd really rather use a Winchester, I'll be looking into that one.
 

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Guess it starts with the 1903 .22 Win. Auto (not .22LR) semi-auto. The first centerfires were the 1905 in .32WSL and .35WSL. Were pretty weak, so in 1907 there was a .351WSL whicih tosses a 180gr. .351" bullet out at 1850-1900fps. That last was not great chakes, but makes an adaquate deer rifle for short yardage (think in te4rms of what hadgunners use)...but found a home as a prison guard gun (they made ammo into the late 1970's and the one I owned had a 10round mag. and Angola State Prison markings). The big boy of the group showed up in 1910, the .401WSL (by the way...WSL stands for Winchester Self Loading). For what it is worth, it was Babe Ruth's favorite deer rifle (or Winchester paid him enough #$ to make him say it was).

Same basic design for all from .22 to .401...and pretty drastic rounds for a blow back action. They got away with it by using a hollow fore end that hid a breech block extension weight....a WHOLE LOT of weight is in the breech bolt...and this does odd things to recoil. One friend expresses firing one as turning a blender with 7pounds of BB's in it on for a fraction of a second.

Gues sone of the neat things that can be done when you design a new case from the gound up is to pick easy to remeber numbers. the .401WSL is a 1.5" case and 2" OAL...easy to remenberm no little left over fractions.

So what they had before WWI was a striaght blow back rifle, in .406" bore, that could toss out a 200gr. bullet at a bit more than 2050fps and a 250gr. bullet at 1850fps.

The question becomes why did .44mag. carbines sell so well in modern times, and Winchester only produce a bit less than 30,000 .401's over 26 years?

BTW: a simple set of swage dies lets me take Hornady XTP 210gr. bullets down to .407" (wich is actually a better fit than the factory .406's)...launched at 1970fps, they do the job just fine.
 

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More muscle for your 1894FG

A wildcat that will function in the Marlin 1894 is the .41 GNR. It is simply the .44 magnum necked down to .410. The .41 GNR is the brain child of Gary Reeder at www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm

I emailed Mr. Reeder and he said that he has converted many Marlin 1894's to .41 GNR and all of his customers are impressed with the results. He also mentioned that the bolt face on the 1894FG would have to be opened up to accomodate the larger .44 magnum rim. Also, if you did not want to alter your 1894FG he could rebarrel an 1894PG or 1894S .44 magnum.

If I can find a used 1894FG cheap enough I am going to have it rechambered to .41 GNR.
 

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NITRO said:
A wildcat that will function in the Marlin 1894 is the .41 GNR. It is simply the .44 magnum necked down to .410. The .41 GNR is the brain child of Gary Reeder at www.reedercustomguns.com/information/GNR_cartridges.htm

If I can find a used 1894FG cheap enough I am going to have it rechambered to .41 GNR.

If you're planning to use a necked down cartridge, you might as well go the 444 route for a longer case & higher powder charge - cut the case down to 1.8", and neck it down to the right diameter for a COL just a hair over 2". You could re-barrel a 336 Marlin born as a 30-30 to the 41 caliber and then ream it to the right dimensions for the longer cartridge - same length as a 30-30. AS long as you keep the pressures within the 30-30 range, it should all hold together very nicely...

I think our friend James Gates has plans to build just such a cartridge after he's got the 1.8" - 44 Mad Max sorted out... Stay tuned! Just find a Marlin 336 ~ 30-30 donor rifle and get ready to have some fun! ;)

GOOD LUCK!
 

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.41 Wildcats

Gowge,

The .411 JDJ is very similar to what you described. It is the .444 Marlin case necked down to .410". Just rebarrel a Marlin 336/444 or a Winchester Big Bore 444. If you want more punch, rebarrel a 450 Marlin to accommodate a .410" projectile.

There has been much chatter recently relative to wildcats based on the 450 Marlin case. I couldn't agree more and am optimistically awaiting Marlin/Hornady to get up off of their slide rules and give us a .338/450 or a .358/450. Fat chance! With no positive news concerning the reintroduction of the .356 and .375 Winchesters I think that we will be waiting a very long time for the .XXX/450's.

Meanwhile, there is much powder to be burned in the current crop of lever action rifles ie 30-30, 35 Rem, 38-55, 357/41/44 magnums, 45-70, etc.
 

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I disagree on using a shortened .444 with a COL of 2.00.

This is too long for M92's or Marlin M1894's. If one goes to the longer M336, M444, or Winchester M94 artificially limiting COL to 2.00 may cause feeding problems, besides why use the long action if you don't intended to take advantage of the extra length?

If one wants a wildcat on the short action Reeders 41 GNR is probably the best and simplest bet, unless you can find a wildcat based on the necked down .45 Colt case.

On the standard length actions the .444 shortened to 1.80 case length would be a good combination, if you want to load heavy bullets. If you intend to use 'standard weight' .41 pistol bullets just leave the .444 full length when you neck it down. This is the .411 JDJ.
 

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Full Length 444 Case?

WAGNER95696 said:
I disagree on using a shortened .444 with a COL of 2.00.
On the standard length actions the .444 shortened to 1.80 case length would be a good combination, if you want to load heavy bullets. If you intend to use 'standard weight' .41 pistol bullets just leave the .444 full length when you neck it down. This is the .411 JDJ.
Marlin 444s are 2.225" case length. That's almost 2/10" longer than a 30-30 case (2.039") and would require a whole rework of the action as well as the new 41 caliber barrel.

The 411JDJ is over three (3) inches COL... ;) I don't know if a reworked Marlin 444 or 45-70 (Model '95) action could be made to even work with that cartridge. It's 'bout a half inch (1/2") longer than both these cartridges which have COL about 2.55".

GOOD LUCK!
 

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ira41magfan -

as pointed out in other replies, 414 with a case length of 1.610" (already at or more than the 1894 action can cycle), one can go the 41-44Rem Mag route, or... use a 375 marlin action (to handle the pressure), swap to a 35 rem bolt, and open up the face to handle the 414 rim... and one has a 414 levergun.

do shoot straight,
greg
www.gmdr.com
 
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