[Hunter Jim]

Another shooter steeered me over here to Baartooth from Accurate Reloading where I posted a query on experiences with the .416 Barnes cartridge.

A gent I know in Africa is thinking about building one on a M1895 Marlin.

What is going on with the .416 Barnes?

jim dodd

 

[alyeska338]

Jim,
Though I did not find any specific threads to the 416 Barnes, here are a few that might be of interest.
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4271
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3108
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3116
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3071
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3030
http://www.shootersforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3075

These are the 416 wildcats that I could locate on this Wildcat forum. They don't really seem to address the 416 Barnes by name, but could include some interesting data.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help, maybe some other members can lend us a hand here.

 

[Hunter Jim]

Alyeska338,

Thanks for the steer to those threads; that gave me some interesting reading.

jim dodd

 

[alyeska338]

Jim,
Beartooth offers some really nice cast bullets in the 416 caliber. Marshall currently offers a 335gr LFNGC and a 375gr WLNGC. You view these two at http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm then select 416 Caliber from the left side of the screen.

 

[CEJ1895]

Hunter Jim - Why doesn't he just pick up an 1895M and save himself all that time and expense. Since the .450 Marlin is close to a .458x2 American which I believe the .416 is based it would seem to me it would be easier to find the .458 dia. loading components than the .416 which doesn't offer many bullet profiles for loading into a lever gun. But I guess if you got to have one you got to have it! CEJ..

 

[snake river rufus]

The .416 barnes was based on the 45-70 case and any round nose bullet will work. I've read that Barnes developed the round just for his 400 gr 'original' bullet.

 

[Jack Monteith]

Hi, Gents:
I believe there's a little confusion here. Frank Barnes, author of Cartridges of the World, developed the .416 Barnes. Fred Barnes, founder of Barnes Bullets, was the maker of the "Original" bullet. So far as I know these gentlemen were not related.

Bye
Jack

 

[snake river rufus]

You are right Jack. I read the article in an old issue of Handloader and the line that I recall was " I created this caliber for the 400 gr barnes bullet". my error. Mea culpa.

 

[Enforcer]

416-284 McPherson

You are right Jack. I read the article in an old issue of Handloader and the line that I recall was " I created this caliber for the 400 gr barnes bullet". my error. Mea culpa.

I have a close cousin to the 416Barnes.It is a 416-284 McPherson in a Savage M99R with 26in barrel.

416 Barnes 300grSp 2355fps-3695fpe
416-284 300gr Barnes X 2500fps-4162fpe

416 Barnes 330gr LEAD 2270fps-3435fpe
416-284 350gr Barnes Solid 2400fps-4475fpe

416 Barnes 400gr SP 2155fps-4125fpe
416-284 400gr AGS Solid 2200fps-4298fpe

There are a couple reasons why i choose the 416-284 McPherson over the 416Barnes.First i'm a big fan of the 284Win.Second it(284Win) holds more powder than the 45/70.Third I love the Savage M99 and have 15 of them.Fourth because of the Savage M99,I can and do use spitzer bullets and load pressures are at 60,000psi with no problems(per Mic McPherson).Neither which is possible in the Marlin M1895,Win M1886,Win M71 etc...

 

[RAS323]

Jim, Vigin Valley Custom Guns makes a 416vvc. It's similar to the 416 barnes but improved. I have one in a 15" encore.
I can get about 2075fps with a 350speer. VVC doesn't have it listed and I had to get my own Dies made (CH&4D).
I have fire formed 284 brass in this chamber (to see if it would work) but the base has a bulge of about 0.010". Shortened 376 styre brass works great.
Also the Cartridges of the World 8th edition has the case dimensions and a couple of loads(300-400grain bullets) for the 416 barnes.

 

[Enforcer]

416VVC

Jim, Vigin Valley Custom Guns makes a 416vvc. It's similar to the 416 barnes but improved. I have one in a 15" encore.
I can get about 2075fps with a 350speer. VVC doesn't have it listed and I had to get my own Dies made (CH&4D).
I have fire formed 284 brass in this chamber (to see if it would work) but the base has a bulge of about 0.010". Shortened 376 styre brass works great.
Also the Cartridges of the World 8th edition has the case dimensions and a couple of loads(300-400grain bullets) for the 416 barnes.

What is the case capacity of this 416 VVC?Does it exceed the 416-284 McPhersons CC: of 67.10?Or the 416-284McPhersons COL: of 2.825? Just wondering. I compute the ballistics you gave into a 22in Marlin at around 2250fps.

 

[RAS323]

Enforcer, I don't really know the case capacity in cc. The dimensions of the case are: base Dia. 0.504", Shoulder Dia. 0.491", Rim to shoulder lenght 1.660"+/- , neck lenght about 0.398", overall case lenght 2.100". I weighed 58 grains of water with a speer 350 seated to 2.825" (the cannelure is below the neck). 64gr. of water with a 335gr beartooth seated the same ( two grease grooves exposed) and 76.7 grains of water fill to top of case (no meniscus). I hope that helps. By the way I was using starline brass I believe Win. and Rem. hold more (thinner brass).

Rick


If it hops it drops, If it flies it dies!

 

[Enforcer]

Here goes

Enforcer, I don't really know the case capacity in cc. The dimensions of the case are: base Dia. 0.504", Shoulder Dia. 0.491", Rim to shoulder lenght 1.660"+/- , neck lenght about 0.398", overall case lenght 2.100". I weighed 58 grains of water with a speer 350 seated to 2.825" (the cannelure is below the neck). 64gr. of water with a 335gr beartooth seated the same ( two grease grooves exposed) and 76.7 grains of water fill to top of case (no meniscus). I hope that helps. By the way I was using starline brass I believe Win. and Rem. hold more (thinner brass).

Rick


If it hops it drops, If it flies it dies!

I want to line these puppies up:

Base diameter 416VCC:.504, 416-284:.500
Shoulder diameter 416VCC:491, 416-284:.486
Case length 416VCC:2.10, 416-284:2.17
COL 416VCC:2.825, 416-284:2.825
Case Capacity 416VCC: 76.7, 416-284: 67.15

They should be very close.It would seem the 416VCC has an edge with a larger case capacity.But velocities don't show that with a clear edge to the 416-284McPerson.But still sounds like a nice round.