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Discussion Starter #1
Mr Stanton;  What slow powder would you suggest for a compressed load in my "small Mag" Case (350 Rem improved and necked to .416)?  I can load to a col of 3.10 so I can use cast bullets of heavy weight.  Thank you  
 

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I moved your thread here to the Wildcat forum, where I think it belongs.  

Now, for some questions of my own.  What velocity ranges are you looking for? What bullet weights and how long is your barrel?  This information will help us to better suggest a powder for your .416 Express!

Please let us know!

God Bless,

Marshall



<a href="http://beartoothbullets.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=15&topic=5" target="_self">Moved here</a>
 

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HillBilly,

I don't know much about the 416 Express, except what I've learned from you on the various talk boards.  But, I just wanted to say that RL-15 seems to be the powder of choice in my Taylor.

I don't know if that's considered a slow powder, probably more a medium powder.  Of course, what's "slow" in one cartridge. may be "fast" in another.

Good luck, and if you ever want to publish your data, I'd be glad to add a page to my website.  
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Brian;  I would be happy to share load data for you to place on your web page.  At this point I have fireformed 150 cases using 350gr Fn RCBS cast of 18lb WW and 2lb 50/50 bar solder lubed with Thompson's red and then tumbled with liquid alox.  34.0 gr 4198 gives 1625 fps.  Accuracy has been outstanding.  Mr Ken Waters(the designer) has provided load data with R-7 giving 2450 fps with 300 grain jacketed.  I have X bullets,Northern Precision, and Hawk 300 gr's on hand to begin my load workup.                                       Mr Stanton:  My rifle is a Winchester classic short action,22" Shillen barrel 1 in 14,and a Kailua custom kevlar stock.  My question really was - What slow surplus powder can I use to obtain accuracy ( you prefer case filling slow powder - right?) with 350 gr cast bullets in the 1600 to 2000fps range?  This rifle will be used to hunt wild boar,whitetails, and black bear ( until my son gets old enough for the Alaskan trip !!) Thank you.
 

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HillBilly:

You mentioned that Ken Waters designed this cartridge,has he published ant info on it, and if so would you share with us where you read about it?

Also can Marshal forward email to since you don't list your address on this forum?
 

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Not that I want to start any fights here, but I would like to set the  record straight about the .416 Express.

I would have to look at our business records, but I could pinpoint the exact day, month and year of what I am going to relate here.

We had two cutomers in Bethel Alaska, Mr. Mike Burley, and Mr. Alan Glore, who came to me, and requested a bullet for their then new .416/350 Rem Mag.  The chamber reamer had been cut, the dies made, and the rifle nearly completed when they contacted me about a custom bullet.  That bullet is the .416-335g LFNGC that is now in our lineup.  Keep in mind now, that this rifle had been in various stages of planning and construction for nearly two years.

Mr. Burley, as I recall, contacted Ken Waters, of Handloader Magazine with a basic outline of their project, and made mention that he thought that there might be a demand for such a cartridge for large N. American game application.

Low and behold, about five months after getting the new .416-335g LFNGC bullet, Ken Waters came out in Handloader with a "New .416 Express"  His New North American Bigbore!  Yes, perhaps Ken Waters did promote it, and he did name it, but the man has failed to ever give credit or mention to the two gentlemen, who are both avid outdoorsmen and hunters who know the need of Alaskan demand, credit for the real work in developing the cartridge!

I'm sorry for jumping on a soap-box I have seen many great ideas come from good people who never get credit for their work... this is one place that I can positively set the record straight and do it publicly.

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Lo And Behold!!! I had the same thing happened to me when I sent my cartridge design to a leading reamer maker...I waited and waited, no reamer...got p.o.'d and sent data to JGS @ Coos Bay. Guess what...Out came my design (7.62x47mm International) as a great discovery by a leading gun writer. How could I write mine up then when the dimension's were within thousanths? RCBS still can supply form, sizing, and seating dies for mine. I still have my reamers. So..I went to overseas with mine on a custom basis. I suppy loading data overseas.
Best Regards from the Hammock.....James
If you make my round out of BR cases, it make a great cast bullet round and if made out of .307 Win.(.30-30 Win rim size) it equals .300 Savage ballistic in lever guns. jcg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Gentlemen:  I have Mr. Waters' version(30 degree) of the "416 Express" chambered in my rifle. I have no idea of who first thought of necking the 350 Rem to 416. If somone sent info to him, he should have given them credit. To not do so is to steal. But sometimes good ideas evolve from smart men concurrently.  I have some personal correspondence from Mr Waters plus his load data published in his Pet Loads book from Handloader.  I am in the process of developing a fairly extensive data base of my own(for the 416 and the other fifty or so rounds I load for!).  I am always happy to share  info with fellow shooters!  Mr Stanton may release my e-mail to fellow board members.
 

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I would like to thank Marshall for helping to set the record straight on this cartridge. The Rifle that Mike and I put together was built on the Ruger M77 Roundtop. When Ken Waters came out with his article, he had used the very same action. I was the one who sent the letter to Mr. Waters. I was wanting to know what he thought of using the 300 barnes X bullet with H322 powder. I still have his reply around here somewhere. This is a very good short action large caliber cartridge. I was getting 2350 FPS from the Barnes 300 grain X bullet out of a 21.75" barrel and 54 grains of H322. This rifle was eventually rechambered to my 2nd of 2 416 Taylors that I have owned.
 

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Allen,

I thought you might find this topic interesting, that's why I e-mailed you about it.

I'd like to thank you again for all the assistance you've provided me, with my 416Taylor project.  Also, I belive it was you who recommended Marshalls bullets to me.I know the bullets will work much better when I finally get a expander type die.
 
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