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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All,

I am an unrepentant fan of short action bolt actions rifles for their quick easy handling and
portability due to their light weight, compact size, and short bolt throws. I have recently been
searching for a capable big game cartridge that would fit in one of the Mini-Mausers. I had all but
resigned to chambering one for one of the handgun silhouette cartridges as a woods companion
rifle and staying with my 600 as the shortest that could handle a true game cartridge. The catalysts
that provided the inspiration to take the next step and design the .416 The Americas Stalker, or
.416 TAS, were the .416 Beartooth of Mr. Stanton and Mr. Gates and the Brockman .50
Beowulf.

First I want all to know that I am an absolute beginner at cartridge design with limited applicable
background, thus "Wildcats 101 and Ballistics 201" advice and information are both needed and
welcome. I am posting a similar message on several forums to gain information and opinions. A
first time designer is also, I hope, allowed the indulgence of using his initials in his cartridge's
name: TAS for Todd Anthony Servaes. The Americas Stalker was also chosen because it is very
descriptive of what I believe the round can do. Because with a good stalk, which is aided by the
handling qualities and portability of the rifles ( with some pressure cautions the 336ER and 94BB
levers can also be chambered for it ) for which it was designed, the .416 TAS should prove very
adequate to excellent for taking any game in the Americas.

The .416 TAS is based on the .240 Weatherby case cut to 1.850" and necked for .416 bullets.
This case length is the longest that allows a cartridge overall length with the Beartooth 375 grain
bullet that can fit the magazines of some of the Mini-Mausers without modification. The .240
Weatherby was chosen because of its' belt for head spacing this straight rimless case and because
its' .473" head diameter is the largest any of these mini actions can handle well and without
modification. A scaled drawing is attached. In short the .416 TAS can be thought of as a ninety
percent scale .450 Marlin, since it is by measure or by weight essentially 9/10 the size and should
provide 9/10 the performance, but will easily allow a twelve ounce lighter rifle with only eighty-five
percent of the recoil

Thanks for the inspiration,
Todd, aka Fireplug
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Sounds neat!
 

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Fireplug,

Just read your post.... I know it's a few days old, but looks like a very promising project!  I'll have to do some looking around, but it seems to me that there's a set of dies made for forming .240 Wby brass from standard '06 cases, belt and all.  Would make this an even more practical project due to availability of brass in that you're not held hostage to a proprietary cartridge case that way.

Keep us posted!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Marshall,
I know this is a stupid question, but wouldn't there be some real headspacing issues?  Would that be an essentially straight walled '06 case?  <!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->  If so, without that belt to 'space on it might be trouble.  I had looked at this very same thing and felt it a little too questionable.  I'm no expert or even what should be considered knowledgeable about it, but it made me a touch nervous.  <!--emo&???--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
 

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H, Guys:
   RCBS doesn't show dies for forming .240 Weatherby from .30-06, but they do show dies for forming 400/.350 Belted Nitro Express from .30-06. It has the correct base size.  Incidently, this is the original belted cartridge by H&H. Ken Waters discussed forming 400/375 cases from .240 Weatherby cases in Handloader #185. The RCBS die set is #58336 and is $349.03 in the 1997 Special Order Catalog. Waters notes that Bertram cases were available from Huntington's at the time of writing.

Bye
Jack
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Mike G,
Thanks for the encouragement.

Marshall,
Thanks for the encouragement and the tip about the '06 to 240 dies. Any information you can pass on about these would be appreciated, since they would eliminate the risk of loosing the parent case. Any tips on twist rate and chamber leade for your .416 bullets would also be a big help. Most of the cartridges that we hear and read alot about with cast bullets operate at a maximum pressure of no more than 40,000 cup, but the .240 is set for 54,000 cup and the 22-250 ( the action is set up for 22-250 ) at 52,000 cup and I will need 50,000 to get the velocity I want. Will I have any problems with cast bullets at this pressure?

alyeska338,
I think the dies that Marshall mentioned use the slight extra diameter of the '06 case to create to .240 Weatherby's belt. I believe that the .416 TAS will headspace very well on the belt alone as do the various staight cased .458 belted cartridges. If I am missing something that will be a problem though, I need to know.

Thanks All,
Fireplug
 

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See, told you I ain't that bright.  <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

Sorry 'bout that fella's.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
UPDATE:

My recent work on the cartridge & rifle has been:

   * Cases fitted to and fed from magazine of the action at NRA Convention.
   * Cartridge lengthened .02" and case mouth diameter corrected.
   * Lee Precision chosen as die maker for factory crimp die and because they are reasonable on custom work.
   * RCBS has provided .416 tapered expander assembly at no cost for improvised assembly of dummy rounds, but they no longer do custom dies.
   * Three interior ballistics programs all predict 1750 to 1800 with 335 grain bullet in 20" barrel, with 42.6 grains water capacity with bullet seated, at very moderate pressures.
   * Performance comparison table prepared.
   * Beartooth has agreed to supply 20 sample bullets to aid die and reamer design.
   * Discovered that only cast bullets are dense enough for good weights in short enough bullets to fit this round in these small actions.
   * Rifle configuration for a light, compact, and hardworking carbine is fixed:
         - Mini Mark X action
         - Douglas Premium 20" barrel 1 in 12" twist ( at the .416 TAS velocity the faster than standard twist seems a good idea)
         - Composite stock with reinforcement at recoil lug and rear action screw, although recoil is calculated to be only 26-29 ftlbs..
         - KG Guncote finnish.
         - Folding leaf peep sight on rear bridge with a short front ramp with a dovetail to allow trial of  Kager cross hair front sight, but the easy switch to a bead if the cross hair does not work.

Sorry, if this is more than you ever wanted to know; but this is exciting stuff for a first time wildcat designer like me.

Fireplug
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Apologies to all. My page editing skills are limited and I did not get the new cartridge drawing imbeded right, but here it is.
Fireplug
 

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Fireplug,
That does sound exciting.  Keep us updated.  I find it truly interesting.  Keep up the good work.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Neat!  Speak up if you need any more expanders, M-type or tapered.
 

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As per request from Fireplug........

Case length @ 1.870" - BTB 335 LFN GC @ 1.00" - less nose to crimp @ .420" = base of bullet to crimp @ .535"......OAL 1.870 - .535" = 1.335"
W 240 hull cut to 1.335" weighs 146.4 grs...with water 179.4 grs....or 33 grs. of water.... 33 grs of water X .86 (avg density of IMR) = 28.4 grs of powder....avg density of Ball powder gives 33 grs of Ball
This is quite a bit different than the supposed 42.6 grs of water.
This gives a Charge Weight Ratio of only .0985 and is off the scale of my calculator.
[email protected]@bellsouth.net
 

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Discussion Starter #15
James,

Thank You! You catching the bullet length discrepency may send me partly back to the drawing board, but it sure saved me a lot of expense and disappointment. I was working from the .795" length given in the BTB bullets "View Details" section and the transposition of the "9" and the "7", which would be a small difference for a bigger cartridge, made a big change for this compact round.

I continue to understand more clearly all the time why so little work has been done to put a substantial round in these little actions: something about ten pounds of something in a five pound bag comes to mind. I remain convinced that I can find the right synergy of case length and components to make this work.  

Thanks Again,
Todd
 
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