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Shoot Magazine shows a load for a Rossi 92 in 44-40cal using 16.5gr of 2400 with 200g R.N.F.P for 1310fps. If I reduce load by 10% like they suggest, I should be able to use this load in my Win Trails End 44-40. Any one ever use this combination, of 2400 with lead?  
 

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This may be kind of an "Apples vs Oranges" thing but I tried about the same amount of 2400 in a 5.5" bbl. Colt .45 w/ 255 gr. LSWC. Even with magnum primers I had unburned powder the length of the barrel, on the face of the cylinder, & in a few instances inside the fired cases. I got better results with Unique & HS-6.
2400 is my powder of choice for .41 Mag.  I am wondering if the "oldies" can take the pressure necessary to get complete burn.
 

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Thanks Charlie, I think I will use 2400 in other ammo. Don't need to change what works in my Win. Just wanted to try something different.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Smokeless Jim                                                                                                                            
 

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Howdy Smokeless Jim,

I have used plenty of both 2400 and H4227E in the .44 W.C.F.  They produce very good accuracy and  the unburned powder has never been a problem.  In addition, they definitely give more of a "boom"  than the faster burning powders, which means that they closely replicate the report of the  original, historic, circa 1895 smokeless  load which was 17 grs. of DuPont No. 1 Bulk smokeless powder.

I use either 15 grs of 2400 or 17 grs. H4227E in my circa 1882 Winchester 1873  .44 W.C.F.  with 200 - 215 gr. bullets.  These loads are within the pressure limits of the '73 action and both turn up about 1250 f.p.s. in my rifle.

Another plus for these powders is that you cannot accidently double charge the case without overflowing it which is not the case with faster powders.

Have fun!

John
 

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Every time I search for 44-40 information, John's name shows up with the best information! :DEven in posts dating back to 2002!!!
 

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Again, if the Uberti Cattleman 5.5" barreled with a 45 ACP cylinder can withstand pressures of 21,000 CUP, then why can't the 44-40, used in the same gun, withstand more pressures than 12,500? Or even the 45 Colt's 13,000? The cylinder walls are thicker for the 44-40. Uberti makes their cylinders from the same blanks. We all know the 44-40 cartridge itself can withstand High Velocity loads. So where is the problem?

I'd like to know if the 44-40 in that handgun can withstand 17-18gr of 2400.

45 Colt weak link - Trapdoor Springfield
44WCF weak link - Winchester 1873 and earlier rifles

Revolvers/rifles - pre-1890s soft steal
 

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Again, if the Uberti Cattleman 5.5" barreled with a 45 ACP cylinder can withstand pressures of 21,000 CUP, then why can't the 44-40, used in the same gun, withstand more pressures than 12,500? Or even the 45 Colt's 13,000? The cylinder walls are thicker for the 44-40. Uberti makes their cylinders from the same blanks. We all know the 44-40 cartridge itself can withstand High Velocity loads. So where is the problem?

I'd like to know if the 44-40 in that handgun can withstand 17-18gr of 2400.

45 Colt weak link - Trapdoor Springfield
44WCF weak link - Winchester 1873 and earlier rifles

Revolvers/rifles - pre-1890s soft steal
*** WARNING ****

The following discusses reloading data for specific firearms and neither I, nor Shooter's Forum assert that it will be safe for your gun. Please refer to a reloading manual and follow all standard reloading practices!

Jack,

I think the important thing is not how much pressure a given firearm can handle, it's how little pressure can the weakest firearm, chambered for that cartridge, handle? I've got a Model '92 in 44-40 and I have two different loads worked up for it. The first is ~9 grains of Unique under a 200gr XTP. This is a plinking round but still too powerful for the older 44-40 pistols. The 2nd is a healthy dose of H4227 under the same bullet. It is ONLY safe in the stronger actions, like the '92. This load is within ~200fps of a 44RM rifle load.

Here is a great article on handloading for the 44-40.

Levergun loads: the .44-40 WCF | Guns Magazine | Find Articles

Lyman's 49th lists 20 grains of 2400 powder as a maximum charge under a 200 grain bullet, but ONLY for actions like the Model '92. They show 18 grains of 2400 generating 14,600psi. The 20 grain maximum charge generates 19,000psi. I do NOT recommend you load that in your Uberti revolver!

For the record: The SAAMI spec on 44-40 WCF is ~16,000psi. If you wish to use 2400 powder, under a 200 grain bullet, for your revolver, I would treat 18 grains as maximum and probably start at around 16 grains.

The important thing for commercial ammo makers is that their stuff will work in ANY gun chambered for 44-40. The important thing for those of us loading our own is to be sure it's safe for whatever firearm we're shooting them from. In my case, I'm using this 44-40 rifle to hunt deer, so I feel it's important to have SAFE loads that are also powerful. If I were shooting a revolver for plinking or just for fun, I'm not sure I would care to push the envelope at all. I'd probably find a nice mild charge of Unique under a lead bullet of the appropriate size.

NOTE: The 44-40 barrel originally shot .427" bullets. Please check your bore before loading modern 44 caliber bullets, as they are sized at .429" or .430".
 

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GREAT POST! Jason!!:) I use 24.0 grains of IMR-4227 along with a .429" to .430" 200 grain Hornady XTP bullet resized to .427" in my own Rossi "Puma" in .44-40 WCF. No problems of excessive pressure or even hard extraction using Winchester or Remington Brass. ;)
 

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GREAT POST! Jason!!:) I use 24.0 grains of IMR-4227 along with a .429" to .430" 200 grain Hornady XTP bullet resized to .427" in my own Rossi "Puma" in .44-40 WCF. No problems of excessive pressure or even hard extraction using Winchester or Remington Brass. ;)
That is almost EXACTLY the same load I use in mine, Dave...but it's not one I would try in any of the weaker pistol or '73 actions. :)
 

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I commonly shoot 18 grs. 2400 with a magnum CCI primer in my .45 colts, both pistol and rifle with a Hornaday 250gr XTP / or the LazerCast 250 gr lead SWC ....never had any problems....
 

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This may be kind of an "Apples vs Oranges" thing but I tried about the same amount of 2400 in a 5.5" bbl. Colt .45 w/ 255 gr. LSWC. Even with magnum primers I had unburned powder the length of the barrel, on the face of the cylinder, & in a few instances inside the fired cases. . . .
Another "apples vs oranges" experience: I once tried 2400 (can't recall the charge) with a 250 gr. RNFP and magnum primer in a .45 Colt lever action rifle and it left unburnt powder flakes in the case, chamber and barrel. Probably could have worked up a charge that would have burnt clean but my point is that those unburnt flakes are hard enough to score cartridge cases and it ended my experiment using 2400 in .45 Colt. I went back to my friendlier Unique and now only use 2400 in my magnums.
 

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My most accuate load for the 44-40 is..

2400 with a cotton ball filler. I can't get Unique to shoot well. On the other hand 2400 in the 45 Colt doesn't work in my gun.

Owen
 

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My favorite is 8.3 grains of unique with a 200 grain cast from friends wood bullets the bullets are .428 and shoot very accurate in my uberti 73.
 

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OK, question for all you 44-40 shooters!

I've been using a fairly hot load of 4227 under a 200gr XTP for hunting rounds and a much milder charge of Unique or Power Pistol, with the same bullet, for plinking. I would like to try some cast bullets in this rebarreled Winchester '92 rifle, at around 1200fps, for more economical shooting.

The question is, would you continue using the XTP for hunting or would it make sense to use the cast bullets for both plinking and hunting, the way I'm using the XTP bullets, now?
 

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OK, question for all you 44-40 shooters!

I've been using a fairly hot load of 4227 under a 200gr XTP for hunting rounds and a much milder charge of Unique or Power Pistol, with the same bullet, for plinking. I would like to try some cast bullets in this rebarreled Winchester '92 rifle, at around 1200fps, for more economical shooting.

The question is, would you continue using the XTP for hunting or would it make sense to use the cast bullets for both plinking and hunting, the way I'm using the XTP bullets, now?
Jason, I've use (or have used) 8.0 grains of Unique with either a Jacketed or a cast lead 200 grain bullet. I would continue use your hunting load, for Deer hunting, using Hornady's 200 gr. XTP bullet. For "Fun shooting" you might want to go ahead and use cast lead bullets of 200 grains and Unique powder. This load is easier on the shoulder and ears. ;)
 

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Jason, I've use (or have used) 8.0 grains of Unique with either a Jacketed or a cast lead 200 grain bullet. I would continue use your hunting load, for Deer hunting, using Hornady's 200 gr. XTP bullet. For "Fun shooting" you might want to go ahead and use cast lead bullets of 200 grains and Unique powder. This load is easier on the shoulder and ears. ;)
...and pocket book? :)
 

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*** WARNING ****

The following discusses reloading data for specific firearms and neither I, nor Shooter's Forum assert that it will be safe for your gun. Please refer to a reloading manual and follow all standard reloading practices!

Jack,

I think the important thing is not how much pressure a given firearm can handle, it's how little pressure can the weakest firearm, chambered for that cartridge, handle? I've got a Model '92 in 44-40 and I have two different loads worked up for it. The first is ~9 grains of Unique under a 200gr XTP. This is a plinking round but still too powerful for the older 44-40 pistols. The 2nd is a healthy dose of H4227 under the same bullet. It is ONLY safe in the stronger actions, like the '92. This load is within ~200fps of a 44RM rifle load.

Here is a great article on handloading for the 44-40.

Levergun loads: the .44-40 WCF | Guns Magazine | Find Articles

Lyman's 49th lists 20 grains of 2400 powder as a maximum charge under a 200 grain bullet, but ONLY for actions like the Model '92. They show 18 grains of 2400 generating 14,600psi. The 20 grain maximum charge generates 19,000psi. I do NOT recommend you load that in your Uberti revolver!

For the record: The SAAMI spec on 44-40 WCF is ~16,000psi. If you wish to use 2400 powder, under a 200 grain bullet, for your revolver, I would treat 18 grains as maximum and probably start at around 16 grains.

The important thing for commercial ammo makers is that their stuff will work in ANY gun chambered for 44-40. The important thing for those of us loading our own is to be sure it's safe for whatever firearm we're shooting them from. In my case, I'm using this 44-40 rifle to hunt deer, so I feel it's important to have SAFE loads that are also powerful. If I were shooting a revolver for plinking or just for fun, I'm not sure I would care to push the envelope at all. I'd probably find a nice mild charge of Unique under a lead bullet of the appropriate size.

NOTE: The 44-40 barrel originally shot .427" bullets. Please check your bore before loading modern 44 caliber bullets, as they are sized at .429" or .430".
44-40 Ballistics Gel Tests
Specifically Test 7: Shots 1-5
Uberti Buckhorn 44 Magnum frame, with 44-40 cylinder
7 1/2" Barrel

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9XZjWb-Avz3zCgNDEhrENjOeLTcXxcbv

Test 7: Shot 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyicsZDSUV0&list=PL9XZjWb-Avz3zCgNDEhrENjOeLTcXxcbv&index=11

This load in a Marlin 1894/Winchester 92'-94' rifle should be replicated at 50 to maybe 100yards
 

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Those are some very good test, SJ. Do you hunt with your 44/40's or just shoot for fun?
 
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