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Discussion Starter #1
Hello to all, haven't been on here for a while, new usrname now, i was 44Joe, anyway, I was reading some old posts from James Gates about the 44 mag max. Were any 336's ever converted? I'd love to have one, or one built on the 445 supermag.

Thanks in advance
 

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Actually, I'm almost positive the 44 mag max and 445 Supermag are synonymous. Both are considerably less powerful than the 444 Marlin.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'll try to find the posts, but from what I read the 44 max mag is close to exactly between the 44 mag and 444, which is a bit more than the 445 supermag. The post was in the wildcating secion.

I copied and pasted them.

James Gates
Beartooth Regular Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,377

For Your Information...44 Mag. Max.

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The .44 Mag. Max. project is well underway now. The final reamer drawings are done and they should be in sometime during the next 2 months. My friend Steve found eight new Marlin 20" .44 Mag barrels for the Marlin Mod. 336 (to be rechambered). One Marlin 336 has now been converted and is waiting on the reamers. A Remington Mod 788 is also in the works. The .44 Mag. Max. is about half way between the .44 mag. and .444 Marlin.
Anyone interested in this new cartridge can reach me at "[email protected]"
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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

Fireplug
Beartooth Regular Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 179

Hello James,

Is your .44 Maximum shorter or longer than the .445 Supermag? Either your new round or the .445 in a handy little "Trapper" carbine would be a very handy thing.

Fireplug

#3 05-30-2003, 05:01 PM
James Gates
Beartooth Regular Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,377

Fireplug.....I will not give out the finished cartridge specs until I recieve the finished and named reamers, but........the basic case is a shortened .444 Marlin holding approx 35/37 grs of IMR 3031. It is not a pistol cartridge, except maybe a TC. It is designed around a converted Marlin 336 action. The Remington Mod 788 in .30-30 Win also makes up into a nice woods bolt gun when rebarreled with a .430" barrel. The ideal bullet weight is 265 gr Jacketed or hard cast. The BTB 265 LBT and the Rock Island 265 TCW are perfect in the cartridge. The barrels that were made for the Marlin 336 in .44 mag are perfect for the conversion of the 336 to the .44 Mag.Max. Yes, it is longer than the .445 and holds more medium burn powder.
Best Regards, JCG
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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

William Iorg
Beartooth Regular Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 4,055

This reminded me of an interesting project that was reported in the Fouling Shot a few years ago. A fellow from Sullivan Illinois had Clymer grind a reamer that was for a straight wall version of the .444 Marlin case, shortened 1/16".
With the straight walled case he could shoot .44 magnum ammunition without overworking the brass. He reported that the long jump did not help accuracy when using the .44 Magnum cases.
His throat had a three degree included angle and it shot cast bullets very well.
The rifle was an H&R Topper and his best load was the Old West 320-gr. GC bullet ahead of 38.0 gr. of IMR 4198 for 1880 fps. He reported 1" groups at 50 yards using a receiver sight.
Mr. Gates, I believe your cartridge may be a better solution to the short/light, "fast action" rifle than Marlin's Outfitter or Winchester' s Timber Rifle. We also have a .45 Colt Trapper that, for several reasons, does not meet our "goals". It is very difficult to balance case capacity with "ideal" bullet weights and desired velocity/energy. Reduced muzzle flash and noise are desirable in a short fast action rifle that will be used in low light conditions, on multiple targets and especially when hunting with others. We are watching the reports on the .480 and .454 lever guns with interest. I don’t need bear protection, just a fast swinging little rifle that delivers between 1700 and 1900 foot pounds of energy. My Guide Gun and Timber rifles deliver but they are not very efficient
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slim

James Gates
Beartooth Regular Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,377

Slim.....You picked up on some facts that are overlooked most of the time...the relationship of bullet weight/burn rate of the powder/Expansion Ratio (barrel length vs bore diameter)/pressure limits/recoil.....all of which need to be considered in a cartridge design. The .444 Marlin was designed around a 240 gr jacketed bullet and due to its throat design, its full potential (case capacity) can't be reached. The .44 Mag's small case capacity does not allow, within pressure limits, the full potential of the heavy bullets.
However, The .44 Mag. Max. was designed from the ground up to give the full potential of the above relationships. A 18"/20" .430" barrel's Expansion Ratio is perfect for a bullet weight of 265/300 gr. Its overall length with this bullets fit well into most lever guns. The throat and leades are designed to handle these longer cast bullets.
Only time will tell........Best Regards, James
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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"

James Gates
Beartooth Regular Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Old Town, Florida
Posts: 2,377

I too have been a fan of 44 caliber rifles and handguns for some time. Those that think a properly loaded .44 Mag. is not a fine game rifle, just have not used it. Both my Marlin 1894P and Ruger Mod. 77/44 has put down hogs and deer, plus some "River Pests"! However, its case capacity id designed around powder burning rates for handguns.
It works in a rifle barrel, but never reaches its full potential. By increasing the case capacity to 35/37 grs of medium/fast burn powders (IMR 3031, Re7, and maybe IMR 4198), we see a marked improvement. With these powders combined with a 265 gr hard cast or jacketed bullet, we have a real powerhouse in a small package. With these powders I think 18" is as short as the barrel should be. The overall length of the cartridge, about as long as a .30-30 Win, makes an ideal conversion for any rifle designed for that cartridge. The major improvement this cartridge gives over the .44 mag is with bullets 265 grs and up.
Yes, the Ruger .44 auto was, and is, a fine little brush gun. Accuracy has been improved with factory offerings at .430" (jacketed) instead of the old .429".....and with hard cast (21/24 bhn) sized at .431". This hard bullets, with gas checks, do not lead up the gas system. No, the .44 Mag. Max. is just too long for the Ruger auto action.
There has been quite a bit of engineering gone into the specs of the .44 Mag. Max. We will just have to see if it takes off in the present market or not.
We are now waiting on the reamers to be finished. Two rifles are in the works now. A short handy Marlin 336 and a heavy barrel Rem. 788. The 788 will be used for accuracy and load development.
Keep in touch and Best Regards To All......James
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Dixie Slugs of Old Town Hammock, Florida
"Home of the Dixie Terminator Slug"
 
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