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Just finished some really interesting tests with the .444P Outfitter.  

I have my pet loads that I hunt with, and decided to do some serious load development using the .432"-280g WFNGC bullet.  All loads with bullet seated to a C.O.L. of 2.51"

Starting with H335, results were less than impressive:

.432"-280g WFNGC/59.0g H335/WLRP/Rem Brass/2167 fps.

Then switched to RL-7 and really got an eye full!  Here are some results... kept going up in charges, and pressure signs just weren't there.  Checked primers, extraction and case head expansion, using all new brass.  These tests conducted at 22 degrees f.

<span style='color:blue'>Please note!  These loads were worked up at 22 degrees f!  Pressures could and probably will be significantly higher at higher ambient temperatures!  Use caution, if working up loads, and remember that the results here that were safe at the 22 degrees will likely be excessive at higher temperatures!</span>

All loads using .432"-280g WFNGC/WLRP/Rem Brass/C.O.L. 2.51"

48.0g RL-7/2207 fps
50.0g RL-7/2300 fps
52.0g RL-7/2375 fps
53.0g RL-7/2400 fps
54.0g RL-7/2434 fps
55.0g RL-7/2478 fps
56.0g RL-7/2510 fps

And these loads were from the ported barrel of a .444P Outfitter!

Now, I tried the 56.0g RL-7 in my old 444SS Micro-Groove barrel gun and got 2594 fps!

Move over .375 H&H!  These loads are really a powerhouse combination for the .444!

The Outfitter was very pleasant to shoot, and the top load generated MOA performance and an Extreme Spread of 9 fps!  

This was a surprise to me, as previously about 2350 was my top load with IMR 4895.

Thought you .444 shooters might appreciate this!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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<i>WOW!</i>

Marshall,

I haven't had a chance to do much chronographing with my 444P since I only got it about a month before opening day of buck season, so these numbers you generated are incredible. So far the best I've managed is a hair over 2200fps with 270 grain Speers and H335. The velocities you've gotten are more akin to 240 grain loads. Do you think the slightly shorter bullet length of the WFN allows that much more useable powder space
than a comparable weight jacketed bullet?

Regardless it looks like a need to get off my butt and send you an order.
 

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Marshall, Quite impressive results indeed. More people should try that powder in a 45-70 as well. It is the only one for results like that in straight wall cases and has been for years. And talk about bug holes, the cat can make it thru the group holes these big bores can shoot. Old Paco Kelly is a believer in more ways then one, but I was reloading the 45-70 before the internet was invented. My goal is to switch to cast bullets as soon as I'm confident with the info gleaned from the web.

(Edited by RugerNo3 at 10:39 am on Dec. 31, 2000)
 

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Glad to see you start playing with RE7..I've been telling people for years that the burn rate on RE7 changes when you switch from a bottle neck to straight case. Even the lowly .35 Rem. starts pepping up with RE7. It appears that RE7, in a straight case burns near IMR3031 in a bottle neck case. As
far ast jacket bullet vs. Hard Cast Beartooth, it's my opinion that you do better with HC in any caliber .348 and above in rifles. Well, don't pay any attention to this "Ole Mossy Back", cause I still hunt with my 1884 Springfield Trapdoor Carbine sometimes! I'm about out of my .459" linotype 400 grainers and later will get some of Marshall's HC for that old gun! One other thing..some of the boys are saying try H322 in the bigbores. I like that powder and might look at it for HC in my Ruger No1 Light Sporter in 06. Depends on what Marshall says!
Happy New Year from Old Town Hammock....James
 

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RugerNo3, I'm interested in what loads you are useing with Rl-7. I have been shooting IMR-3031 with 400 gr bullets.  Have you chronographed any loads?
Marshall, I would like to try some beartooth bullets in my marlin but I'm confused with the choice of bullet diameters for .458 bullets. Could you please explain?

(Edited by Smitty at 2<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->6 pm on Dec. 31, 2000)
 

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   The Reloader 7 info looks good. Have you had a chance to check pressure in these loads? Have you worked up any loads with the 290LFN. yet?                                                    Thanks,

                                                             Walt
 

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Walt,

As I posted, the only pressure indicators have been primers, extraction and case head expansion when compared to factory loads.  No hard and fast pressure tests as of yet.   Very safe and sane in both of my guns!

The .44-290 LFNGC is next on the list!  I'll give it the go with RL-7 and see what happens.   Time will tell!

I'll post the result here when I get them done!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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      Dear Marshall,
     Thank-you for the reply.
 Just thought of a new cartdridge. Take a 450 Marlin and neck it down to .430. What do think?

                                                          Yours truly'
                                                              Walt
 

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WOOF!  As my collie would say.   Marshall, this may be a bit silly but I wonder if your bullets will actually expand at 2500 fps.  I recall your book noting that your bullets can begin to deform @ 1900 fps or so.  If I shot a deer up close with this load, would it be the ultimate stopper for deer and black bear?  Thanks for the load development and sharing your results.

God bless.................  Bill M.
 

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Marshall,

You posted this load on another thread...

"Well here's my best game harvesting load:

Marlin 444 BTB .432"-330gLFNGCDCG/56.0g H335/WLPP/Rem Brass/C.O.L. 2.53" /2225 fps

Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die.  Superbly accurate, feeds in all .444's, both Marlin and Winchester."

Did you by chance chronograph this load?  I'd like to take this load black bear hunting this spring.  I'll be using my Marlin 444SS.  BTW, the .416 bullets you sent me work very nice.

Thanks!
 

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Bill,

Once you get to the .44's, anything LFN or wider in nose profile will begin to deform at 1900 fps striking velocity.

The three deer harvested with our triple-fours here this year were with the .432"-330g LFNGC bullet doing 2200+ out of the 444P's short ported barrel.  The only deer that didnt' show signs of significantly increased wound channel was the one shot at a little over 200 yards.

However, the shots taken from 40 yards and 115 yards were spectacular, as they generally are, even with soft tissue hits!  Hit any solid bone and WOW, some stopping action!

Did a couple spine shots with this bullet/load and each time removed two vertibrae in one and totally wrecked the neck on another, a 5" section of spine and tissue GONE!

Yes, I would definitely say that the 280g WFN going 2500 fps would expand without question out to at least 165 yards!  Further out and with much more impressive results if annealed!

Looking for coyotes and feral dogs in my local.... film at eleven!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Marshall,

Did Santa bring you a set of Ashley ghost rings for your Outfitter? Curious to get your opinion of these sights. Not sure about mine yet, need to shoot more.
 

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1 1/2 to 2 inch wound channel at those speeds.


My, My!!!

:eek:

<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->

(Edited by Contender at 11:23 pm on Jan. 1, 2001)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Brian,

You asked about velocity of a load I had posted earlier.

Marlin 444 BTB .432"-330gLFNGCDCG/56.0g H335/WLPP/Rem Brass/C.O.L. 2.53" /2225 fps

Crimp with Lee Factory Crimp Die.  Superbly accurate, feeds in all .444's, both Marlin and Winchester."

It chronographed right at 2200 fps with the short ported barrel of the .444P Outfitter, and 2270 or so with the longer barrelled .444SS Micro-Groove model.

It does have some recoil factor to it, but the results justify the punishment!

BTW could you share with us what you're doing with the .416's in your Taylor?  That's one I don't have much data on with our bullets.

Thanks!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Very impressive results Marshall but what will the pressures be at 80 degrees F! I will bet the velocity will go up to! Second, the wet newsprint tests I did this fall showed considerable expansion with the 290gr even at 2200fps. At 2500 fps I think we might lose some
valuable penetration in exchange for a lot of expansion. What do you think? I think you might have to slow down on the lighter bullets if you want penetration just like on jacketed bullets. Third, the .44 Mag with the 300gr DCG out of my Redhawk penetrated several inches more than the 290gr .444 and it was only going 1500fps. Just my .02 cents worth, and always....God Bless

Chris
 

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Would a 280 gr. bullet be sufficient for large bear defense as well as elk and deer hunting using the loads Marshall has listed here? Or would I be better off with a larger bullet?  I anticipate all shooting to be at maximum 75-100 yards.  Thanks-karl
 
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