[Bolt2bounce]

I ran into a problem loading the 265 gr LeveRevolution bullets, in my Marlin 444.. they are too long to feed or eject a live round in my Marlin 444, any one else had this problem? now I have 100 bullets, that I'll have to shoot single shot.. not the end of the world, but a bummer to me.. B2B

 

[mogwai]

I ran into a problem loading the 265 gr LeveRevolution bullets, in my Marlin 444.. they are too long to feed or eject a live round in my Marlin 444, any one else had this problem? now I have 100 bullets, that I'll have to shoot single shot.. not the end of the world, but a bummer to me.. B2B

You can either seat them shorter and crimp with a Lee Crimp die, or get some Hornady brass. They are cut shorter to work with the gummy tip bullets and crimp in the cannelure

 

[Mike Buchanan]

Could you trim some of your brass instead of buying Hornady brass???

 

[Bolt2bounce]

i guess I could do either, just never thought I'd run into that problem.. I'd rather not have to do that, I'll be sticking to the flat point bullets from now on in the 444.. B2B

 

[baddad457]

If you handloaded them into R-P brass, yea, the overall length is too long. Hornady's 444 brass is a full 5/32" shorter than R-P brass, just for this very reason. Buy a bullet puller or just shoot em all and stick to shorter bullets in the R-P cases. Just for information, Hornady's 300 Gr XTP's will feed when loaded into R-P cases and crimped in the forward cannelure. I use all my Hornady cases to load my cast 290 gr FNGC bullets, which have longer noses like the 265's you loaded. New Hornady brass is too expensive to buy, I've gotten all mine from the local range for free.

 

[TMair]

Hornady's reloading data for there FTX bullets in the 444 says that you need to trim the cases .010 shorter then SAMMI specs.
Terry

 

[Bolt2bounce]

Yes I'm loading RP 444 brass, it aint cheap either.. I'll end up shooting them single shot, as I'm not going to pull them, too much work for me.. The other option is to trim off the nose of the gummy tips'..I may try that on a few..also.. If I load any more, I'll trim the cases back so they will feed but I'm not thrilled about that concept either.. I got a few rounds stuck in the gun test cycling them through and I had to take the gun apart to get it out.. while it was apart.. I saw a lot of bad machining marks and burrs so I polished up and removed a lot of burrs and sharp edges on the inside of the gun.. I beveled and polished the feed way and magazine tube mouth also..I think that will make it a better..functioning system down the road.. there was a lot of rough spots in the gun.. My go to bullet will likely be the XTP 300 gr but I like the concept of the Leverevolution..bullet.. B2B

 

[Tnhunter]

Yes I'm loading RP 444 brass, it aint cheap either.. I'll end up shooting them single shot, as I'm not going to pull them, too much work for me.. The other option is to trim off the nose of the gummy tips'..I may try that on a few..also.. If I load any more, I'll trim the cases back so they will feed but I'm not thrilled about that concept either.. I got a few rounds stuck in the gun test cycling them through and I had to take the gun apart to get it out.. while it was apart.. I saw a lot of bad machining marks and burrs so I polished up and removed a lot of burrs and sharp edges on the inside of the gun.. I beveled and polished the feed way and magazine tube mouth also..I think that will make it a better..functioning system down the road.. there was a lot of rough spots in the gun.. My go to bullet will likely be the XTP 300 gr but I like the concept of the Leverevolution..bullet.. B2B

The gummy tips will simply pull off with a pair of needle-nose pliers too. That would make zero difference on any shots out to 150 yards or so, performance-wise.

There is an excellent bullet penetration test for the .444 over on the Marlin Owners forum. Take a look, it has some surprising results. The XTP was not one of the better bullets, BTW. If you cannot find it, simply PM me and I'll send you the link.

 

[Bolt2bounce]

Yeah I solved my problem with a belt sander and it still leaves a little bit of rubber to absorb recoil forces in the tube.. I know the XTP was really designed for a handgun bullet so I'd not expect it to hold up as well as a bullet designed for a rifle, I'll cast some bullets if I want penetration.. I've also read the leverevolution bullet is not a great bullet as far as toughness either.. B2B

 

[baddad457]

The 300 XTP's don't expand as big as the lighter XTP's do. They're meant to expand slightly AND penetrate, and I doubt the ballistic coefficient is that much different from the 265 tipped bullets. Trimming a lot of brass is something I've done in the past, but I'd rather avoid doing now. And I have a powered case trimming lathe. I went to Hornady's site, the 265 FTX bullet's coefficient is .225, the 300 XTP is .245. So the XTP has a slight edge on the FTX BEFORE you remove the FTX's nose.

 

[Tnhunter]

The 300 XTP's don't expand as big as the lighter XTP's do. They're meant to expand slightly AND penetrate, and I doubt the ballistic coefficient is that much different from the 265 tipped bullets. Trimming a lot of brass is something I've done in the past, but I'd rather avoid doing now. And I have a powered case trimming lathe. I went to Hornady's site, the 265 FTX bullet's coefficient is .225, the 300 XTP is .245. So the XTP has a slight edge on the FTX BEFORE you remove the FTX's nose.

The penetration test I referred to had 10 bullets for the .444 tested with the medium being water jugs filled with water. Two of the tested bullets were cast bullets, the other 8 were jacketed bullets. In this test the 300gr XTP finished dead last and had complete seperation of jacket and core.

A short quote from the test:
The reason why the Hornady 300 gr XTP finished last because 1) core/jacket separation 2) lowest retained weight 3) neither penetration nor energy transfer all that impressive

The 265 FTX finished with better penetration, more expansion and it did not separate. As a wild card entry a 180gr "X" bullet out of a 30/06 was also tested with the same medium. Several of the .444 bullets outperformed the 180gr "X", but not the XTP. It was a very well done and interesting test.

 

[baddad457]

How do you compare penetration testing in water jugs ? That's hardly a medium to use to estimate penetration in live tissue. Great fun, but hardly a valid test medium.

 

[Tnhunter]

How do you compare penetration testing in water jugs ? That's hardly a medium to use to estimate penetration in live tissue. Great fun, but hardly a valid test medium.

Well, I look at it like this: if you compare loads with the same medium, it certainly tells you what each load does in comparison with another. Is that not the point?? I'd not argue that there might be some other "medium" that better represents an animals body, but THAT medium would more than likely show the same trends, at least in my opinion.

Is there something you think might be a better test of penetration that's easily available to the common person? I've seen wet newsprint used, but why would that be better than simple water/jugs?

Oh, and if you'd like to see just what happened in the test this person spent a LOT of time doing, here ya go!

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,81274.0.html

 

[baddad457]

You ever shot water jugs ? A gallon milk jug pretty much explodes when shot with anything. You ever see an animal do that ? You want to go by water jug comparisions ? Go right ahead. I can think of any number of other mediums that are easily available to anyone with little effort.

 

[TMair]

I seen some tests on TV where they used water jugs, I think water is very hard to penitrate, and I think the test would be valid, for comparison, one bullet goes through lets say 4 jugs full of water, the next bullet goes through lets say 6 jugs, which one penitrated best? Seams simple to me.
Terry

 

[Bolt2bounce]

Water is not the best test for penetration but it's cheap and easy. I'm not really worried about BC or penetration..too much with the leveRevolution ammo/bullet... The rounds I've loaded will likely only kill rocks dirt and paper.... I don't get to hunt that much so, I'll likely not get to test any out on meat... My biggest concern was the lack of feeding through the rifle, I've solved that problem and now I can move..on to accuracy tests.. I think if i was going to hunt I'd use a Partition or a hard cast lead slug... B2B