[Starrbow]

The only thing the 444 gives up to the 450/45-70 is a heavier/bigger bullet, and in the 30 years I have owned and hunted with the 444 I "NEVER" needed a bigger/heavier bullet to do the job "Better"
The 444 does it with less bullet and less powder, and thats a winner in my book. My take on the 45-70 ammo any where in America is pure BS, there is so many lame cowboy loads and off brand ammo out there it would be a needle in the hay stack to find exactly what you are shooting, The 450 has that won hands down, because it only has one ammo offering you know at least it will be the same as what you got and thats a "Big" plus.......Marko

 

[Starrbow]

If the 45-70 and 444 shot the same weight bullet at the same velocity the 45-70 bullet will lose ground to the 444 every single inch of flight.

the 45-70 has to either shoot a heavier bullet over a longer range or it must shoot a equal weight bullet significantly faster to shoot flater.

A 444 marlin handloaded will always shoot flater then a 45-70, we have much lighter bullets to use.

does it matter in the real world NO, only to the 45-70/444 crowd

 

[Starrbow]

Jackfish says:
"But the 45-70 drives equal weight bullets significantly faster than the 444. That is its inherent advantage, it shoots bullets of equal sectional density at least as fast and bullets of equal weight significantly faster. Please don't try to limit the 45-70 to win an argument, I always represent the full potential of the 444 Marlin to show its shortcomings."

Yes the 45-70 can drive bullets of equal weight slightly faster
its a good thing it can as the bigger bullet in the 45-70 will have to use all the advantages it has to overcome the effects of physics on the bigger diameter bullet with what gain over the 444? Nothing you can measure so nothing gained.

Jackfish says:
"Go ahead and use your big bore lever rifle for a gopher gun. If you could even hit them with it. Pretty pathetic approach to win an argument that really was intended to be about big game. Sure you can go to bullets that are generally impractical for most applications, particularly big game applications, to try to win the argument. For big game the 45-70 will shoot just as "flat" as the 444 and is more powerful. Go ahead and take the 444 shooting pistol bullets at relatively high velocities inaccurately and maxes out at 405 grains while 45-70 shooters know that the 45-70 is actually the more versatile round shooting a 143 grain round ball to 550 grain monster stoppers. The 45-70 can do all the 444 Marlin does, but the 444 Marlin cannot do all the 45-70 does."

The 444 does not need to do all the 45-70 can do, because it can do it with less, You could not spend enough money in ten lifes times to definitively prove the 45-70 is better then the 444 in the field...yes it will always look better on paper, but we wipe with paper..... As for accuracy just look at the postal matches and who wins and with what?.....the 444 can do something the 45-70 can not, it is a very efficient cartridge the 45-70 is a pig.


Jacjfish says:
"Keep digging yourself deeper. 45-70 shooters could make 185 grain bullets by compressing .452" bullets and reswaging them and then drive them significantly faster than the 444 Marlin can shoot 180 grain bullets for a flatter shooting 45-70 rifle. But we don't stoop to using impractical attempts to win an argument that we've won already. Go ahead and try to make a useful load out of 160 grain bullet in the 444 Marlin. Then try to make something that will handle a Cape Buffalo. Pathetic indeed!"

Try as you may with your politican rhetoric the truth is every Big Game animal in the world has been taking with the 44Magnum, So all we have to do in Down load to 44mag velocities and hunt the world.............................Marko