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Discussion Starter #1
If any .45/70 users have or do use loads in the same range as factory stuff or level I handloads, how well do they work for deer, elk, and wild pig? Loads of say middle 1800's fps for 300 grain or around 1700 for 350 grain, like in the older Hornady manual or the standard factory stuff. If your opinion varies with bullet type list cast or jacketed preferred.

Thanks,
Fireplug
 

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Hello Fireplug       I normally drive 400gr bullets to about 1600fps for hunting. I have only used Speer 400gr JSP for hunting so far. I get vey good expantion and full penetration so I have no need to go to the higher velocitys and put up with more recoil. I have shot the remington bullet but never have used it on game. I am told it expands faster than the Speer so it should work well at the lower velocitys. These loads are alittle warmer than factory loads but well below max. I have used this load  on Russian boar and deer with excelant results so I have no need to go to higer velocitys. I know you asked about the 300 and 350 grainers but I have not used these weights on game. Iam sure the Hornady 350JSP would work well at the velocitys you are interested in.          Eric
 

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The 405gr rem bullet is much stouter then the Speer 400 gr. Buffalo Bore Ammo loads it up for one of their Hi-Performance loads.The Rem will do nicely to 2000+fps. If the Remington is used at its factory velocities it'll penetrate nicely with little or no expansion. It is the best value in a jacketed bullet bar none. Will do nicely in the 458Win Mag too.
 

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Fireplug,
When I was living in Soldotna AK, too a moose with factory loaded 405gr cast bullet at bout 50-70 yds. He went down like he had been hit by a speeding semi.
Forgot what brand it was (been 23 yrs ago), but ifin it will take out 900 or so lb moose ought to work on anything you want to hunt in the lower 48. Working on a 405 gr hollow base cast for my creedmore (replecia of course) using about 67.5 grs of 2fg will be trying it on black bear here in No. Cal. (41 mag will be on hip just in case)

Gun Runner
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks All.
We all make alot of noise about how much power can be produced by up loaded .45/70's, but I thought it might be worth passing around the question of how good it is in standard loads.
Fireplug
 

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Fireplug: Yesterday I had nothing new to report on this type of load. Today I can give you a little adventure story.
A young friend of mine who I've known since he was a little boy is currently making a good reputation as a big game guide. He works for several outfitters in B.C. and does the moose, deer, cougar, black bear and mountain goat routine.
He's planning to work in N.W.T. this fall in a camp that specializes in sheep and grizzly. He decided he should get a compact thumper to carry as a back-up and selected a S.S. 45-70 Marlin Guide gun.
His dies etc. had not arrived yet so he brought some brass over to my shop and we loaded him up 50 rounds of moderate loads using the RCBS 400FNGC (actually about 415 grs.). These were soft cast bullets and from my 86 Win. ELR I had established 44 grs. of 3031 as being about all they will handle with excellent accuracy. These were intended to be practice loads until I get a batch oven hardened. I haven't chronographed this load but suspect between 1500 and 1600FPS.
I went fishing for two weeks and he picked up a bear hunt with an archer for grizzly. Still not having any other loads he took the ones we prepared for him.
The archer stuck a grizzly with an arrow all right which precipitated an instant charge.
The young fellow placed one slug under the bears' eye at close range and the bear  collapsed in mid-stride completely dead . The bullet was recovered from the shoulder on the side opposite from the entry point.
Penetration was through the skull, neck and shoulder muscles. I don't know if the spine or shoulder were also broken as yet as I only spoke to his Dad about it and the guide is still in camp looking for a big black bear for the client.
I'm impressed with the result at any rate.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks All,

This information makes me think I might be on the right track on my two current projects: my .416 TAS since it will produce essentially this power, and a take-a-long HandiRifle to just always have along as back up or camp gun.

The HandiRifles are astonishingly inexpensive, and I have yet to hear or read a bad word on them. Extra barrels and fitting are very cheap. They are reasonably light also.

I really had not given much thought to the HandiRifles, but then I saw one cheap after I had been looking at shgotgun cases. The brainstorm or perhaps brainfade is this a take down shotgun softcase with a HandiRifle and a .45/70 barrel and a .22 Hornet barrel. The result, I think, a compact, cheap, not too heavy package that could handle most any task in a pinch. Heck, for this role I might not even handload for them, but just keep one box of factory for each in the cases front pouch.  

What do you think?

Fireplug
 

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I like it.... can you also get a shotgun barrel to go along with the other two?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
MikeG,

Yes, they actually have a rather good selection of barrels. I was thinking two barrels because I am sure that two would fit in the barrel section of a case for a double shotgun.Barrels

Fireplug
 

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I've been shooting a Handi in 45-70 and 22 Hornet for around 9 years now, and it's become my favorite rifle.  Have an ol' Topper 12 guage also that's my knockin' around the woods gun.  Just DON'T shoot 3" magnums in it,unless you're into serious pain.  Both rifle barrels are extremely accurate, an' my rifle came with a 3 lb trigger,so I've never had to send it back for that kind of work.  In the 45-70, I've shot mainly 300 gr Speer's, Hornday's and Barne's semi-spitzers at velocities ranging from 1840fps to 2400 fps.  Found out driving the first two at anything over 2200fps is not a good idea.  They tend to overexpand and bloodshot deer as bad as a 270.  Most of my loads for those two(using IMR4198) range from 46.5 grs(for around 1840 fps) to 51.2 gr(for 2173 fps).  The Barne's semi-spitzers need around 2400 fps to expand well, but the recoil in the light, little Handi is just too much.  It's not so much the pain as keepin' the 'scope out my face unless I'm REAL careful.  I'm switching to Speer 400 grs this year, just to do something different, and figure to drive them between 1750 and 1800 fps, using either Reloader 7 of IMR 4198.  Killed 17 deer with that rifle/caliber, and only one needed a second shot.  That one was an under the tail going away shot(only one I had) at an 8-pointer with a Speer 300 gr at 1840 fps and at about 25 yds.  He'd stopped with just his butt stickin' out of the brush.  The bullet entered just under the tail, traveled along breakin' the spine and exited about halfway down the back.  Didn't ruin an ounce of tenderloin.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Joel,

I do not think a better endorsement could be made for this idea than your nine years of experiences you have shared.

I have been too busy to get started on this project, but as soon as I get a break I am going to get it put together.

Thanks,
Fireplug
 
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