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45-70 powder suggestions

2000 Views 44 Replies 21 Participants Last post by  unclenick
My brothers and I have wanted to try reloading for some time but don't really know where to start. From what I gathered straight walled cartridges are easier to load for. I have a Chiappa sharps chambered in 45-70 which I would like to load for. I currently have CCI large rifle primers, starline 45-70 brass, and Hornady .458 300 grain Hollow Point bullets. I appreciate any suggestions for what powder and how many grains of powder to use. I'd prefer to use smokeless powder. I'd also like with something low-powered like a trapdoor load. Any knowledge will be appreciated. Thanks

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I’ve owned seven different rifles in 45-70 and had one Encore barrel in 45-70. I’ve been reloading for around fifty years now and I have to say that the 45-70 is the least fussy cartridge I’ve ever loaded for. Here’s my absolutely best advice I can give to you based on what your stated expections/purpose are. Get a Lyman reloading manual, look at all the loads under the section dedicated to Trapdoor loads (the least powerful loads) and pick any powder listed for the bullet you want to shoot. Based on my experience, you’ll probably be satisfied with any of the loads offered. One minor suggestion I can make based on my experience, choose a heavier bullet than the 300 grain. Every gun I own or have owned shot the best group with heavier bullets…..400g, or at least 350g. They’re still quite manageable at Trapdoor levels. Every deer I have shot with these loads has been complete pass through on deer regardless of distance or angle. If you’re new at this, please read the book on how to do it and get some mentoring if possible. Don’t use any loads that are not in the reloading manual. It can be dangerous to do so. Lots of bad advice out there. Good luck.
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Truly and honestly, go buy several manuals. Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Lyman, Lee, etc. Are all good choices. Read everything except the actual load data in them.
Once you've done that, you'll understand the theory of operation; and can look at the load data.

Powders that we buy commercially, are called canister grade powders. They are a blended product of various ages and sources, meant to meet a general range of properties.
So don't fall in love with "a" powder, at "a" certain charge. They are a constantly variable product, and results will vary over time.

Welcome to the eternal rabbit hole.😉

Cheers
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Well put nsb.

To respectfully disagree with Darrker, I've only used one manual since I started and that's Lyman. They don't sell bullets, powder or primers, only reloading and bullet casting tools. The information contained in them is gleaned from over 150 years of experience and reading each section will answer any questions you'll come up against. They also have an awesome technical staff you can email.

Your local library should have other manuals you can check out if you feel the need.

IMR4198 is a good first choice for a "go to" powder, but as Darrker stated, don't get hooked on one as there may be another that works better in your rifle.

And yes, trapdoor (1873 Springfield) loads are a great safe starting point and will kill anything in North America with the right bullet and proper placement. I've never felt the need to "go bigger".

And yes (again) a 400 grain bullet is more better 😁 than 300, but I wouldn't return the ones you have either

RJ
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Thanks for all the replies, I have one reloading manual for 45-70 Lyman's I think and plan on getting more. I really appreciate any and all of the advice! I will also try to find some 400 grain lead bullets too
If I couldn't get a Hornady manual I'd use Lyman's 300 gr data. Being that I'm not that brave, I'd probably not go anywhere close to max. trapdoor loads.
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Jacketed 300 Gr. Bullets are meant for full throttle hunting loads in this caliber, possibly up to or exceeding 2000 fps. Save those for when you are more experienced with your rifle and caliber. These are better bullets for hotrod loads in a modern Marlin model 1895 ( or Ruger equivalent)

400 gr. Lead bullets moving along at 1200 - 1400 fps is more likely what your rifle is made for. The good thing is that it is a modern manufactured firearm, with better metallurgy than the originals.

I would also recommend that you pick up a current edition of "Cartridges of the World", as a reference for load data. But read the Lyman Manual first. These two references will steer you in the right direction for load data for your particular firearm.

Best wishes on your Journey.
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Different bullets & powders are made for different applications. The 300 grain jacketed bullets are designed for high velocity modern hunting & come with a fairly unpleasant recoil. All the 45-70's I have had shot the best with hardcast lubricated lead bullets of 400 grains or heavier sized at .002" over groove diameter. It's very important that you slug your bore to determine which diameter lead bullet to use. Any powder listed in a manual "can" work. You just have to experiment. I have found that IMR or H-4198 & 2400 gave me the velocity (1200 to1400 fps) & accuracy needed for anything within the range of uses the cartridge has whether hunting or target work. I would avoid light bullets & high velocity with the 45-70. It's never going to be a "flat shooter", but they can be extremely accurate & loaded with a 400 to 500 grain bullet at moderate velocity will kill anything on the North American continent. Good luck!
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Thanks again for all the new replies! I'll have to slug the bore, and get a heavier bullet. I'm glad to get all the information I can. I don't much any hunting with 45-70 so I'll probably save the hollow points and get some 400 grain lead bullets!
Thanks again for all the new replies! I'll have to slug the bore, and get a heavier bullet. I'm glad to get all the information I can. I don't much any hunting with 45-70 so I'll probably save the hollow points and get some 400 grain lead bullets!
Bullets .001" over can work good too. Bullets groove diameter or smaller will not be as accurate & will lead your bore. I used to shoot the "Quigley" up in Montana years ago. My load was a 435 grain, .459" 3 groove hardcast @ a tad over 1300 fps. It would "ring" the buffalo if I did my part.
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A manual or three should be the first reloading tools you purchase!!! Read the first 1/3, three times.

I've tried about every powder suitable for the 45-70 and if relegated to only one, it would be black powder. However, I understand not wanting to use it. My top smokeless pick would be a toss up between IMR-3031 and Reloder 7. After those two, most seem about equal.
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My brothers and I have wanted to try reloading for some time but don't really know where to start. From what I gathered straight walled cartridges are easier to load for. I have a Chiappa sharps chambered in 45-70 which I would like to load for. I currently have CCI large rifle primers, starline 45-70 brass, and Hornady .458 300 grain Hollow Point bullets. I appreciate any suggestions for what powder and how many grains of powder to use. I'd prefer to use smokeless powder. I'd also like with something low-powered like a trapdoor load. Any knowledge will be appreciated. Thanks
One more thing: to calculate how many loads you can get out of your powder - 1 lb = 7000 grains.

I try to get a maximum velocity load with the fewest grains of powder, so that the powder will last longer ( more cartridges ). But sometimes that doesn't work out best for accuracy. In a big cartridge like the 45-70, you can go through powder pretty quick.
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405 Lee mould 1:20 at Trapdoor pressures will just about do it all.
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Interesting loads here: Lever Gun Performance Studies
I have fun with Unique loads and 300 gr. cast. Target shooting at 100yds
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Purdy neat old cartridge. I think of it like a 22 rimfire with a bullet that is 10X heavier. Speed of sound just works about right for a lot of uses. Al Gore got this one right when he invented it. Accurate, predictable, formidable.
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I am going out on a limb here…why not think about using what the original Sharps was designed for…black powder. Wolf, IIRC, has a booklet on loading for the 45-70 trapdoor Springfield. That info should be good for your Sharps. BP and a soft lead 405 or 500 grain bullet might be interesting.
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I "duplicated" the velocity of the 45-70-405 with a load from Lyman's 36th using 2400 for my 1895 Marlin in it shoots a 457124 (made when that mould spit out a true 405 gr bullet) better than I can hold it.

Just to throw another log in the fire

RJ
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Thanks again to everyone who has responded to this thread. I am glad to be getting information from experienced reloaders! I did at one point consider black powder but do to the lengthy cleaning process I'd prefer smokeless. I also considered casting my own bullets but will probably just buy them. Again I really appreciate the information and any further suggestions or knowledge!
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Interesting conversation. I have an 1873 Springfield trapdoor that I've been wanting to load for. I'll probably use the load information found in J.S. & Pat Wolf's book "Loading Cartridges for the Original Springfield Rifle and Carbine". I'll probably compare what it says with my reloading manuals but from my research the book by the Wolf's is pretty much the best information out there for "trapdoor safe" loads (used in trapdoor's that is).
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Hodgdon's list of trapdoor loads includes some Accurate 5744 that appear to hit traditional velocities at very reasonable pressures.
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