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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone experimented with sabots on any caliber slug for the 458 (45/70).

It seems that a 416 or 429 slug with weight of around 300 to 350 grains could be driven to 2400 or 2500 in a Marlin.

My thinking is that the sabot would eaze the bullet travel if a sabot was attached. The Sabot wouldn't have to be ejected from the slug after leaving the barrel. The increase in velocity could be achieved without getting into pressure issues.

Sounds simple enough but there must be problems as I have not seen this done.

If anyone has experience or knowledge regarding this practice, please answer on this thread or send me an E-Mail.
My E is: [email protected]

Thanks,
Roger
 

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Roger,

Just a couple of thoughts on your question.

The two principal elements governing chamber pressure directly related to the bullet are weight and length. The other factors are temperature, loading density, and powder burning rate. There are others, but these are the principal ones. Bullet material has some bearing, but isn't as important as weight in it's effect on pressure.

There are two areas I can cite which make this a not so practical idea. To introduce a sabot, probably of a material similar to or HDPE which I believe is used in most sabot type small arms ammunition, would increase the length of the bullet. The core bullet would be long for it's diameter and need to be fired in a barrel with a rifling twist the same as if the bullet were fired in a rifle of it's caliber. The typical .45-70 twist being 22" is too slow for a .416 300 gr. bullet. The assembled bullet would also be longer for it's weight than a .45 caliber bullet of the same weight which would result in deeper seating depth and less case capacity. If the sabot remained assembled to the bullet after firing the bullet would have a seriously reduced sectional density and ballistic coefficient.

The net result would be a bullet with a poorer ballistic coefficient launched at the same or lower velocity than a conventional bullet of the same weight and result in worse, not improved performance.

If you reflect on all items of sabotted ammunition you can think of, you will see that they are very special purpose loads. The best examples I can think of are the Remington Expediter rounds which fired a light for caliber bullet out of a twist appropriate for the sub-caliber bullet. The second is sabotted shotgun slugs which depend principally on form stability, not gyroscopically induced stability and shed their sabots on firing. The final common items are sabotted pistol caliber bullets for muzzleloaders. These again are light for caliber, short bullets being shot in a twist which is appropriate for the sub-caliber bullet. These will not work in a muzzle loader barrel rifled for round ball as the bullet will not stabilize.

If you were to use a sub caliber sabotted bullet in the .45-70 it would need to be of a length whuch would stabilize in the 22" twist, which would mean pistol bullets of probably standard weight for caliber. These would be .357/158 to possibly 180 gr., .400 not over 200 gr. and .429/240 to possible 275 gr. The .44 bullets would be for practical purposes a plastic patched rather than truly sabotted bullet.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sabot

ALK8944,

Thanks, I new I was being too simplistic in my thoughts. Was really looking for the Magic Bullet. Trying to get 3900 ft/lbs out of the 45/70 in a lever gun.

Your fine explanation shows several big faults in my hope for round.

Nice to get information and not be flammed to death.

Thanks,
Roger QSL
 

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Nice try Roger.

If you are worried about what **** had to say in the AR site about the legality of 45/70 on buf. Don't worry. I have consulted with 2 different Game Parks officials regarding this and they were bothmore that happy that the 45/70 would do the job.

Their answer to me was and I quote "9,2's have been doing it for years and 45/70 matches them in foot pounds"

As the PH that will be conducting the safari I am more that happy and confident that the 45/70 will do it again. People seem to think that because not everyone that has shot a buf with a 45/70 lever gun that it hasn't been done often. Well It has been done more oftn than may be beleived.

Go with your insticts. See you in Africa.:D
 

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Rob,

Can I post your last here thread at AR?

Not to worry about my concersns regarding the 45/70 doing the job. I know it can do it!

Sure hoping to win and doing some hunting with you.

Roger QSL

Moderator's Note:
This post has been modified/edited due to inappropriate/suggestive or disrespectful comments/language.
 

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This message has been deleted in it's entirety as being disrespectful to the forum & the moderators.

Roger, if you don't like it here, well, the Internet is a big place. Start your own forum or whatever.

This site is wholly owned & operated by Beartooth Bullets, who own this forum and graciously allow nearly anyone to post messages about shooting & hunting. It is THEIR forum. If you think that the moderators are doing a bad job, myself included, please do send an email message to the webmaster - [email protected].

I can appreciate that you are used to a different style of communication, having read a few threads over at AR. But... we don't do things that way here. So, be nice, be polite, and if this is not to your liking, complain to Marshall. I just don't know any other way to say it.

MikeG

In adding to Mike's message regarding the editing of this post, I would remind everyone that the purpose of this forum, and the Beartooth Bullets website as a whole is to present an unintimidating free exchange of information without fear of criticism or inflammitory comments. The vision has been to provide a wholesome, family-safe forum for all to enjoy. As Mike has aptly observed, there are many forums on the internet, all with their own code of conduct or lack of it, if our practices of civility and non-slanderous exchange aren't to anyone's liking, there are other places to go on the web.

Marshall Stanton
Owner
Beartooth Bullets
 
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