45-70 with an ounce of lead
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I have some 455grain .460 Bonus bullets to try but I have not had the time yet......Keep us posted.
Studog,
Why not! the 45-70 and heavy bullets belong together. I have'nt shot anything lighter then a 405 in mine!, I just can't do it ( It's that 450 Marlin complex thing! )
.......................................................marko
Studog,
Why not! the 45-70 and heavy bullets belong together. I have'nt shot anything lighter then a 405 in mine!, I just can't do it ( It's that 450 Marlin complex thing! )
.......................................................marko
This Sunday, I'll be firing up the lead pots to cast 500 each of the Lyman 445 grain GC and the Saeco 350 Grain GC.
This Lyman mold I have, looks very similar to the bullet pictured above. It's the most accurate bullet I've found for my two 45-70s. I use an alloy of Wheel weights and a bit of tin to sweeten the pot. Air cooled, these bullets don't lead, are accurate using some right stiff loads of IMR 4064 and Rl-7 powders.
I've found that I can get the gas checks to stay on the bullet by first annealing them. I'll order in a couple thousand, I throw them into an old skillet and burn them until they are black. I cool them on a sheet of aluminium, throw them into a cookie can and leave them on the bench for sizing-lubing.
Jim
This Lyman mold I have, looks very similar to the bullet pictured above. It's the most accurate bullet I've found for my two 45-70s. I use an alloy of Wheel weights and a bit of tin to sweeten the pot. Air cooled, these bullets don't lead, are accurate using some right stiff loads of IMR 4064 and Rl-7 powders.
I've found that I can get the gas checks to stay on the bullet by first annealing them. I'll order in a couple thousand, I throw them into an old skillet and burn them until they are black. I cool them on a sheet of aluminium, throw them into a cookie can and leave them on the bench for sizing-lubing.
Jim
I have the NEI 440gr GC mold also and am still working up loads. As has been previously stated, the gas checks like to come off -- had to make a chronograph "protector" with a piece of 1" oak & small piece of dowel to fit in the hole on front of unit (Chrony Beta Master-- display seperate from sensors). I locate the chrono about 15 ft in front of muzzle and find gas checks anywhere from 12 ft to 30 ft in front of muzzle. have found an occasional one that hit the tripod and is somewhat wrinkled up. Have noted that H335 seems to be somewhat temperature dependent, H322(an "extreme" powder of Hodgdon's) was more consistent temperature wise. Here's what I got(32F, Marlin 1895ss .45-70):
Powder gr vol(cc) primer bullet oal
H-335 50 3.4 Win WLR Cast Performance 460 2.52 R-P(brass) 1743 (ave mv @ 15ft)
H-322 50 3.62 Win WLR NEI # 346 GC 440 2.525 R-P 1881
H-335 52 3.46 Win WLR NEI # 346 GC 440 2.52 R-P 1785
H-335 56 3.7 Win WLR BTB 405gr GC 405 2.555 Star 1946
Still working up loads, but happy with accuracy with these loads. The NEI #346 requires care(not much, but can't just ram in without paying attention to what you're doing) in loading in the loading port on the Marlin due to blunt nose profile (negotiating the mag tube bulge), the Cast Performance did not.
Powder gr vol(cc) primer bullet oal
H-335 50 3.4 Win WLR Cast Performance 460 2.52 R-P(brass) 1743 (ave mv @ 15ft)
H-322 50 3.62 Win WLR NEI # 346 GC 440 2.525 R-P 1881
H-335 52 3.46 Win WLR NEI # 346 GC 440 2.52 R-P 1785
H-335 56 3.7 Win WLR BTB 405gr GC 405 2.555 Star 1946
Still working up loads, but happy with accuracy with these loads. The NEI #346 requires care(not much, but can't just ram in without paying attention to what you're doing) in loading in the loading port on the Marlin due to blunt nose profile (negotiating the mag tube bulge), the Cast Performance did not.
Jackfish,
How are you coming along on your load development?
I've gotten a box of these for development in my 450 Marlin. The load data provided with the bullets and my work with a Powley Computer both suggest faster powders (relatively) such as H4198 or IMR3031. I believe you mentioned the use of H335 on another forum?
Any load/velocity figures you have to go along with Mike's post would be a helpful sanity check. I'm looking at starting at 40.0g of H322 with standard WLR primers and a COAL of 2.540"
I think I've taken a fairly conservative approach to this, but I guess I'll find out when I get the chrongraph work done.
How are you coming along on your load development?
I've gotten a box of these for development in my 450 Marlin. The load data provided with the bullets and my work with a Powley Computer both suggest faster powders (relatively) such as H4198 or IMR3031. I believe you mentioned the use of H335 on another forum?
Any load/velocity figures you have to go along with Mike's post would be a helpful sanity check. I'm looking at starting at 40.0g of H322 with standard WLR primers and a COAL of 2.540"
I think I've taken a fairly conservative approach to this, but I guess I'll find out when I get the chrongraph work done.
Note to self:
In the 450 Marlin, 46g or H322 w/ WLR primer under a 440g LFNGC at 2.540" COAL will only get 1700fps. No leading or signs of pressure. Steady gains in velocity per grain of powder. Standard deviation is only 6fps, but haven't tested for accuracy.
Still more capacity in the case--add more powder!
Fired three shots into a bucket of wet sand. Complete penetration to 15" bounced off the back of the bucket and split the entire works. Need a new, and bigger bullet catcher. The FN erroded to more of a round nose. No other deformation.
Average retained weight was only 270g? How much does bullet lube and a gas check weigh?
In the 450 Marlin, 46g or H322 w/ WLR primer under a 440g LFNGC at 2.540" COAL will only get 1700fps. No leading or signs of pressure. Steady gains in velocity per grain of powder. Standard deviation is only 6fps, but haven't tested for accuracy.
Still more capacity in the case--add more powder!
Fired three shots into a bucket of wet sand. Complete penetration to 15" bounced off the back of the bucket and split the entire works. Need a new, and bigger bullet catcher. The FN erroded to more of a round nose. No other deformation.
Average retained weight was only 270g? How much does bullet lube and a gas check weigh?
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4 Posts
I'm new to the 45/70. Handloading for about 25yrs though.
Just to add to the data.
Starline cases
Fed 210 primers
465gr sized at .460 from the Bullshop 20 BN similar to the 460gr posted earlier
OAL 2.535"
Marlin 1895gs
10shot strings
Oehler 35p at 10ft
H322 46gr 1703fps sd 9 32deg
H322 47gr 1733fps sd 8 50deg
H335 48gr 1647fps sd 9 32deg
H335 49gr 1701fps sd 7 50deg
H4198 38gr 1619fps sd 13 32deg
H4198 39gr 1662fps sd 12 50deg
all loads shot to 2" at 50yds with factory iron sights
plenty snappy!
No signs of excess pressure, cases eject effortlessly. I'm thinking about pushing these to about 1800fps. I'm kind of in the dark here as far as data to work with. Not much published these days for the heavy bullets. What I do have is from Hodgdon's #24, 500gr jacketed H335 53.0gr for 1638fps, H322 50.0gr for 1667fps, H4198 43.0gr for 1607fps all from a 22" bbl. No pressure is listed it only says .45/70 Heavy loads for Ruger or Marlin Only. Loads are being developed for defense while packing meat in AK on an upcomming bowhunt (optomistic huh).
What do think is a reasonable max? Responsiblity for error rests with the end user as always.
Just to add to the data.
Starline cases
Fed 210 primers
465gr sized at .460 from the Bullshop 20 BN similar to the 460gr posted earlier
OAL 2.535"
Marlin 1895gs
10shot strings
Oehler 35p at 10ft
H322 46gr 1703fps sd 9 32deg
H322 47gr 1733fps sd 8 50deg
H335 48gr 1647fps sd 9 32deg
H335 49gr 1701fps sd 7 50deg
H4198 38gr 1619fps sd 13 32deg
H4198 39gr 1662fps sd 12 50deg
all loads shot to 2" at 50yds with factory iron sights
plenty snappy!
No signs of excess pressure, cases eject effortlessly. I'm thinking about pushing these to about 1800fps. I'm kind of in the dark here as far as data to work with. Not much published these days for the heavy bullets. What I do have is from Hodgdon's #24, 500gr jacketed H335 53.0gr for 1638fps, H322 50.0gr for 1667fps, H4198 43.0gr for 1607fps all from a 22" bbl. No pressure is listed it only says .45/70 Heavy loads for Ruger or Marlin Only. Loads are being developed for defense while packing meat in AK on an upcomming bowhunt (optomistic huh).
What do think is a reasonable max? Responsiblity for error rests with the end user as always.
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