[Sneakfoot]

Hi to all. I'm looking to buy a 45/70 or larger Shiloh Sharps, but have some questions that I hope you may clear up for me. I say 45/70 or larger because I have been told that a 45/70 should only be used on animals up to whitetail deer? My plan is to hunt moose next year. That's why I said or larger. What is the difference between a 45/70 2 1/2 and a 45/70 2 1/10, and what does the ST stand for.

Godspeed

 

[Runnin Lead]

.45 -2.10 or .45-2 1/10 = .45-70
.45-2.40 or .45-2 4/10 = .45 -90
.45-2.5 or .45 2 1/2 = .45- 100
More case capacity for black powder , for smokeless more overcapacity.

ST = Straight Wall
BN = Bottle Neck
Have been told that load develepment for BN cases can be a PITA.
45-70 only good up to whitetail deer , guess nobody told all those buffalo / bison that were killed in the 1860's - 70's with a 45-70
Brass for 45-90 over DOUBLE the cost of 45-70
Go larger than 45-90 EVEN MORE $$$$
45-90 was developed for long range target shooting - 1,000 yds.
I use my 45 - 70 & 45- 90 mainly for target shootimg , as far as personal experiance
as far as killing power all I have ever shot was a pocket gopher that was stupid enough to stand 45- 50 yards away at the range.
From that personal expereance I woud have to say that a 45- 70 is enough gun for pocket gophers , perhaps just a little too much gun.
From what I have seen with a .530 PRB with a pocket gopher at about the same distance I have come to the same conclusion.
I have used a .54 ML on elk & would have no doubt about using a .54 ML OR 45 -70 ON MOOSE BUT HAVE NO DESIRE TO DO SO , I DREAD THE DAY THAT MY BROTHER DRAWS HIS CO MOOSE TAG , I HAVE NO DESIRE WHAT SO EVER TO GET STUCK HAVING TO HELP HIM PACK IT OUT !
A pocket gopher is about 4 X the size of a chipmunk.

 

[jaybirdjtski]

Are you planning on loading with smokeless or sticking to black powder only? 45-70 loads seem to fall into a few different groupings: modern rifles with strong actions, lever actions (modern variety), and lastly, black powder only. The first category can take loads that will be suitable for the largest game in North America. 405 grn bullet @ 1900+ in Ruger #1 actions. 500 grn @ 1800+ fps.
I haven't seen any loads for 45-110 that offer any advantage. In fact, they produce less velocity unless you're comparing black powder only loads. I believe the Shiloh Sharps is built to take modern factory load pressures so you can shoot 45-70 smokeless.
Add to that, easier, cheaper, more versatile etc. I think I read somewhere that Shiloh sells more 45-70 than other chamberings something like 10 to 1?
Another way of looking at this....I have a 454 Casull, Ruger Super Redhawk. The 454 has taken just about everything on the planet with the possible exception of mature, trophy WalMart shoppers. The 45-70 is significantly more powerful, especially when fired from a rifle, than the hottest 454 load.
Have you considered perhaps a Ruger #1 in 45-70? They're probably 1/3rd the cost of a Shiloh sharps plus perhaps being one of the strongest actions out there. Another option, maybe a little more money...a Browning or Winchester 1885 in 45-70, the modern versions are strong and accurate. These are the ones manufactured in the 1990's I believe. Load it with black powder or load it with smokeless to factory pressures. NIB I've seen that version asking price $1200 to $1700. Ruger #1s are +/- $1000.
I'm in the market for a 45-something and I've agonized over this issue. Looking at everything, especially since I only have $$ for one of something....45-70 in an action strong enough for factory smokeless loads is my choice. Shilohs are beautiful but then so are Ferrari's, Rolex watches and Wilson 1911s.

 

[ChrisL]

You might also want to ask on the Sholih forum as you'll get plenty of answers with respect to hunting with the .45-70 and black powder.

I'd agree with pretty much everything Runnin Lead said.

Chris.

 

[Sneakfoot]

The Sharps is a rifle that I just have wanted all my life, and I'am at that place where the path behind me is much longer then the one in front of me, so it's time. I would like to load both black and smokless powders. Do like that Goex, but thinking I would get max. efficiency from smokless. Still some confused about the 45-2.10, 45-2 1/10 is that the same why as saying the case is two and one tenth inches long? Didn't know that Shiloh has a forum. Supprised that they didn't mention it when I called Big Timber. Is the Pederosoli action as strong as the Shiloh?

Godspeed

 

[Runnin Lead]

Shilo Sharps,C .Sharps & Pedersoli are fine rifles.
I have a C. Sharps & a Pedersoli & am very happy with them both.
I do not like Pedersoli Tang Sights, won't hold setting.
Have very accurate load worked up w/ BP for the C. Sharps
I have played around with Accurate 5744 while doing some fire forming.
It worked out well in trapdoor level loads . pushing it things just went all over the place , couldn't keep it on a 1/2 sheet of plywood but the Lyman 457193 405gr ( cast closer to 420 w/ 30-1 ) shot excelent with about 27 gr 5744 & the 457125 500gr ( 30-1 cast about 520) did quite well with around 23-24 gr of 5744
Going to a hotter load ain't gonna do you any good when accuracy goes away with it, I beleive that the 1-18 barrels for stabilizing a heavy bullet
& pushing a 405-420 gr with the increased velocity that they just get to spinning to fast ( RPM threshold factor) , the Trapdoors had about a 1-22
twist.
Well that is my theory & opinion right or wrong you still can't push them & keep them on a 1/2 sheet of plywood , let alone on a sheet of paper
When playing around with smokeless I still use a BP lube like Eagle or SPG
or a modified Emert's w/ lanolin.
A 405-420 gr hunk of lead in front of about 27 gr of 5744 = about 1300 FPS
A buffalo don't have no stinking cronograph ,wouldn't know if it was going 1300 or 1500

And yes the case length of a 45-70 is 2.10" & 45-90 is 2.40.

 

[ChrisL]

The Sharps is a rifle that I just have wanted all my life, and I'am at that place where the path behind me is much longer then the one in front of me, so it's time. I would like to load both black and smokless powders. Do like that Goex, but thinking I would get max. efficiency from smokless. Still some confused about the 45-2.10, 45-2 1/10 is that the same why as saying the case is two and one tenth inches long? Didn't know that Shiloh has a forum. Supprised that they didn't mention it when I called Big Timber. Is the Pederosoli action as strong as the Shiloh?

Godspeed

If you are looking to load with smokeless I'd go for the .45-70 and no larger. Anything with a bigger case is relatively pointless with smokeless as you'll never use all of that case volume.

With respect to action strength I've seen some argue for both Shiloh and Pedersoli as being stronger than the other. Pedersoli publishes limits for their rifle and if I recall correctly it's in the 29,000 psi range for the .45-70. On the Shiloh board I've seen Kirk post that the Shiloh is as strong as a Ruger #1. I have a Shiloh and I'll never shoot loads like that out of it though. It'd hurt!

With respect to quality I'd say this:
I've owned an older Pedersoli and it was nice and accurate. I eventually sold it as it was a very light rifle and only had a single trigger rather than the set triggers.
I own one Shiloh and it's nicely accurate with cast bullets and Goex. It has the best fit and finish. It's beautiful wood, although it's only the standard wood.
I own a few of C. Sharps (2 1874s and an 1885). One of the 1874's is my most accurate BP rifle. The wood on these is not as fancy as on the Shiloh, but they are great rifles.

I'd be happy with any of those brands. The only thing I don't like about the Pedersoli is the shape of the forearm, which incidentally I had not noticed until I read Mike Venturino's fine book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West".

Chris.