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300stw

Every time I try to get em down to 110 fps, they get stuck in the barrel 8*)

I do have good luck when I drive a 255 grain Keith style at 1100 though!

My Speer manual lists 12.9 as a max load with a velocity at about 1050. I have gone just a tad above that in my Smith Mountain Gun with good accuracy although I am not recomending YOU do that in YOUR gun.

Scotty
 

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Coldfingers,

I've never used BlueDot in my .45 Colts either, but I have used it in the .357 Mag.

Which Speer Manual are you using?

My Speer manual lists 12.9 as a max load with a velocity at about 1050.
I'll bet that Mountain Gun's a handfull with that load. Sounds like fun. How is your gun holding up to this load?
 

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J. Miller.

that data was from the Speer #13 and they used a Smith&Wesson 25-5 for the test gun.

MY Smith seems to be doing just fine so far with the load I am using and gets good accuracy (WHEN I do my part) Recoil is not near as bad as some of the CorBon loads I have shot from the M.G.

My poor MG may be doomed to rattle loose one day but I am willing to have it tightened back up if necessary because it carries and shoots so well. Surprisingly the same load seems to do quite well from my little Taurus five shooter with 2" barrel. The Taurus has a very loud bark and a sizable bite with the BlueDot loads. Much more fun with 255's over RedDot or Bullseye

I would not want to be on the downrange end of either firearm with those loads.

Scotty
 

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Just yesterday I was shooting some 45 Colts with Blue Dot.

270gr Keith, 13.5gr Blue Dot, WSP primers, 1050 fps over the Chrony from a 5.5" Bisley. My 25-7 loves this load too, one of the most accurate in it as well.
 

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John K.

Nice to have you here. Your 13.5 grain load was what inspired me to try it in my Mountain Gun. I have been very happy with that load in that gun. I did fret a bit since it was a tad over the Speer manual, but it is no where near as hot as the 335 CorBon loads 8*)

I do not intend to feed the Smith a steady diet of the CorBons but they do shoot well and give a bit of confidence in the field. In a pinch, I figgure they will perform as well as any other thing I could maybe control.

Any ideas as to the pressure with that amount of Blue Dot?

Scotty
 

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Thanks Scotty,
It is a bit above even the Speer manual, but only .5gr over their max load for a 260gr JHP, which should be 16,000 CUP. Another 1/2 a grain in the big 45 Colt case shouldn't raise the pressure to much. Sierras 3rd edition shows 14.2gr of Bluedot as the starting point for their "Ruger Only" loads, which was another reason I originally felt this load was safe for the Smiths.

As for the pressure I'd only be guessing. The Lyman book says 15.0 gr of Blue Dot under a 245gr LSWC in the 44 Magnum is 20,000 CUP, since the 45 Colt has a much larger case capacity and we're looking at 13.5gr I'd guess the pressure is somewhere in the middle, maybe 18,000 CUP, well below the 30,000 CUP Hodgdon lists as max for Rugers.

John
 

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John

Thank YOU! Good info. I like this load since it shoots so well in my MG and the Blue Dot is fluffy enough to not leave room for "error" without spilling over the top.

I sure like that Smith, and would hate to tear it up. I just made up another box of these to take down to Florida tomorrow. My hope is to fly back to Alaska with some fresh pork chops. Hopefully the Hogs will be more willing than the Montana Mule Deer were 8*)

"My kingdom for a blind pig..."

Scotty
 

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Coldfingers,

I have a Taurus M450 ultra-lite in 45 Colt and it is rated +P by the manufacturer. This 5 shot revolver only weighs 19 ounces and is constructed utilizing an aluminium alloy for the frame and stainless steel for the cylinder and the 2" barrel. What is the operating pressure for this revolver? To my knowledge there is no published pressure limit for the 45 Colt +P. Is there an official 45 Colt +P? Cor-Bon has some very hot ammo in this caliber but they call it the 45 Magnum. I called Cor-Bon and they DO NOT recommend the 45 Magnum ammo in the M450 Taurus.

Comments by any and all are most welcomed.
 

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Good to see the posts about Blue Dot. It has become my favorite powder for hunting loads in the 44 mag with a 240 gr. bullet, cast ot jacketed. I still use Green Dot and Universal for my reduced loads just because I have it on hand and I have obviously become adicted to the smoke of the Green Dot. I know I will be trying one of the traditional reduced load powders next.

I use 13 grs of Blue dot under the 240 gr XTP for a hunting load in the 44 and I figure it is 1100 to 1200 out of the 5.5 inch SBH.

The Blue Dot load is very accurate in my 1894 also.
 

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NITRO where did Taurus say their medium frame 45 Colt is rated for +P use? I've heard one or two other people state that as well but have never seen anyone say where they read that, it doesn't say anything about +P on their web site that I could find.

Just out of curiousity could you throw a caliper on your M450 and measure the thickness of the chamber walls both outside and between chambers and post the results?

There is no official "45 Colt +P" pressure rating. I think most people use the Ruger only loads published in most loading manuals as a guide for what a 45 Colt +P round is though so even though there isn't an official standard that is the un-official standard. Beyond that, again in my opinion, many people consider them 45 Colt +P+ rounds for use in 454 Casulls or custom large frame 45 Colts.
 

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Taurus M450 45 Colt +P ?????

JohnK,

Here is dimentional information that you requested on the Taurus M450 UltraLite Ported 5-shot chambered in 45 (long) Colt (+P ???):

Cylinder length: 1.583"
Cylinder diameter: 1.531"
Between cylinders: 0.103"
Outside cyl. walls: 0.068" (a "little" thin for +P)

In addition, below is where I found the information that advertises that the M450 is +P rated. It is from the taurususa.com 2002 web page which is no longer available for viewing. As you observed, their 2003 web page makes no reference to 45 Colt +P for the M450.

I ordered the M450 believing that "maybe" it was true but since I purchased it last year I have only fired Winchester 225 grain Silvertips in it. Maybe it won't fragment at 20,000 to 25,000 cup but not in my hands.

SORRY, CAN'T UPLOAD TAURUS 2002 CATLOG INFO. WILL DO SO SHORTLY
 

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TAURUS M450 CONTINUED

TAURUS 2002 INTERNET/CATALOG PAGE 30 INFO. INDICATED THAT THE M450 ULTRALITE IS +P RATED IN 45 COLT.
 

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Keep in mind that the data in the different manuals differs a bit as to what +P means in the .45 Colt, if you're talking about the Ruger loads at least..
 

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Thanks Nitro, that's just what I was looking for. I'm actually a bit surprised how thick the cylinder walls are.

The Sept 2002 GUNS that has the same measurements for the new smaller frame 5 shot 45 Colt from Freedom Arms, the M97, here's a table with your measurements of the Taurus alongside those of the M97 Freedom Arms and my Ruger Bisley


Cylinder length: (T) 1.583", (FA) 1.627", (R) 1.709"
Cylinder diameter: (T) 1.531", (FA) 1.575", (R) 1.730"
Between cylinders: (T) 0.103", (FA) .0905", (R) .064"
Outside cyl. walls: (T) 0.068" (FA).058", (R) .078"

It's interesting the Taurus has more steel between the chambers than the Ruger and virtually the same as the Freedom Arms. Going by these numbers it looks like the Taurus cylinder may be stronger than the Freedom Arms or Ruger, assuming equal quality of steel. Since the bolt stop notch is between the chambers on the Taurus and more over it on the Ruger the cylinder that would give the Taurus another advantage.

Buffalo Bore has a 300gr XTP load at 1,200 fps for the Freedom Arms M97, I wonder if they've tested it in the Taurus?

Thanks for posting that Nitro, I never would have guessed that the Taurus was even close that that strength, so it makes sense they would have rated it for +P loads. I wonder if their lawyers concerns about liability are why they removed that from this years catalog.
 

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Of course I'm thinking just of the raw relative strength of the cylinders in that comparison, not the strength or durability of the guns. I have no doubt that the Freedom or Ruger would outlast the Taurus on a diet of heavy loads.
 

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For now I am going to limit the M450 to Factory ammo. Another concern is the alloy frame. The M450 is also available in an all stainless steel configuration weighing 8 ounces more; 28 oz. for the all SS and 20 oz. for the UltraLite. I am of the opinion that if the object of ones' desires is 45 Colt +P loads in a compact revolver then the all SS model is much preferred over the alloy-framed UltraLite.
 

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JohnK said:
NITRO where did Taurus say their medium frame 45 Colt is rated for +P use? I've heard one or two other people state that as well but have never seen anyone say where they read that, it doesn't say anything about +P on their web site that I could find.

Just out of curiousity could you throw a caliper on your M450 and measure the thickness of the chamber walls both outside and between chambers and post the results?

There is no official "45 Colt +P" pressure rating. I think most people use the Ruger only loads published in most loading manuals as a guide for what a 45 Colt +P round is though so even though there isn't an official standard that is the un-official standard. Beyond that, again in my opinion, many people consider them 45 Colt +P+ rounds for use in 454 Casulls or custom large frame 45 Colts.
.

I misplaced the Taurus 2002 catalog and just found it. Page 30 shows the M450SS2C (all stainless steel) and the M450SS2ULC (alloy frame) as rated for +P ammo.

It also shows the 7-shot Model 817B2UL blued steel UltraLite 38 Special +P, and the 5-shot Model 415SS2C all stainless steel 41 Magnum.

I like my M450 Ultra-Lite in 45 Colt. When I bought it I didn't know if I would like the barrel ports. After a few range sessions, I like it. This revolver is light, accurate and powerfull.
 

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