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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I read an article on-line, maybe a year ago, where a comparison was made of the brass for 454 Casull. Freedom Arms, Hornady, Starline and Winchster brass were compared for tolerance, strength, etc. Now I can't find it, even on a Google search. Does anyone know where it is?
 

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Searoy
Don't know where that article is either , but if you want an opinion on the brass mentioned. I rank them as follows FA Starline, Winchester then Hornady- though Win and Horn are close as to reloads per case with slight advantage to Hornady.
I've had no failures with the FA brass- a couple with Win and Hornady's :D
 

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I remember this article but can't find it. I would say that starline is the better brass out of the ones metioned, Winchester/Hornady seem to be a little soft for hot loads using the 454 Casull, they expand too much and get sticky, I have only found this to be true using the SRH 454 Casull, my SRH 44 Mag has no problems with all of the above brass using hot loads. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the response guys.

The sixgunner search doesn't work, the handgun and reloading articles link is down, and I don't see McPherson anywhere. I'm sure I'll find it.

I've been using Winchester 454 Casull brass but just received some Hornady brass from Midway. I'm really pleased with the 'look' of the stuff. We'll see how it performs a little later.

If I recall, the Hornady stuff was rated most consistent and second thickest, with the strength nod going to Freedom Arms. Winchester was a close 3rd on all counts and Starline was the lowest reated on both thickness and consistency.

These facts are illustrated in the Speer and Viht load data. Speer, using Freedom Arms brass loaded 27.0 grains of VV N110 under a Speer 300 grain Uni-Cor SP, which is labeled as a compressed charge. Viht uses Starline brass to load 28.7 grains of VV N110 behind a Speer UCSP. When I asked the Viht rep they said it was brass thickness that made the difference. With the increased powder capacity there was increased velocity using the Viht loads, at the detriment to logevity if I had to guess.

Hornady uses 27.1 grains of VV N110 behind their 300 grain XTP mag, which is longer and sticks into the case more than the Speer, but they do not label their charges as compressed or not. I'll likely use the Hornady data, now that I have Hornady brass. I've been testing for a while now with XTPs. A freind has some 2400 and 296 I may play with as well.
 

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I found with the Hornady Brass-especially the factory loads they stuck in my SRH-when hot loaded they'd stick as well usually had to load them alittle lighter than the rest-1/2 gr or so! The Winchester brass seem to swell more with the hot loads-ie more working to the get them back to specs when reloading so obviously the cases will not last as long.With FA brass I see none of this!!:)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the link animal. That's exactly it.

Both my sons want to help, Austin 2 and Cameron 6 months.

My daughter, Tayor, 5 already helps me prime and measure powder for my Casull. Soon she'll be ready for her own 480 Ruger.

C
 

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casull brass

When i bought my 454 Ruger i got a box of Hornady ammo.Every round i fired stuck in the cyclinder.I bought new starline brass and loaded it mild then to the max never have had any problems.I think the Starline is better, just my .02
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Rugers are notorious for rough chambers. I think that I've had to polish the chambers on every single one that I own. Some would stick with factory loads, and we're talking .357s, not .454s.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Howdy all,

I have loaded and fired some loads using my Hornady brass. Look to previous threads "Rookie Reloading" and Rookie Reloading Pt 2" (I think) to find out the history of my particular load develpoment.

The change I made from my previous load is the switch from once/twice fired Winchester brass to new Hornady. I too found sticky brass at the upper end, some were stuck badly. I had used hotter loads in the Winchester brass without sticking. There could be a number of reasons for this, but I believe the primary reason is the thicknes of the brass. The Hornady brass is noticeably thicker. That has to increase pressure by reducing case volume.

My velocity with the lesser charge in the Hornady brass was comperable to the heavier loads in Winchester brass, so I have to assume that pressures were similar, despite the difference in powder weight.

The load I've settled on for now is 18.3 grains of WSF using Hornady brass and WSR primers under a 300 grain Hornady XTP/Mag. Velocity averaged 1416fps with an extreme spread of 53fps and a standard deviation of 19.0. Grouping of 10 rounds was 2" at 30 yards, with most of the variance in a horizontal plane. This makes me think that it was the shooter not the gun and tighter groups are possible. Recoil is managable and I'm getting acustomed to it, but muzzle blast is pretty severe. I get spit at several times during a lot.

Velocity at various loads was [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected] 18.0 had the next best group at 2.5" and the rest were 3" to 4". Spreads were similar to 18.3 except for 18.4, which was 110fps.

In fact 18.0 grains of WSF would have been my first pick load but the cases stuck pretty bad, as did they with 18.4. However, 18.1 through 18.3 the cases were only a little firm and still extracted without significant effort.

What it does tell me though is that WSF is likely not a great choice for my gun. I was hoping to find a powder in the range of WSF, HS6 and Herco to give me 1400-1500 fps at max load that was bulky enough to fill the case, or even give a slightly compressed charge. Still a freshman at loading and shooting, I rapidly began to see how interesting and deep the science and art of reloading really goes.

My next powder is currently up in the air. I'm looking at Viht 3N37, N105 or N110, based on the Speer #13 and Viht data, and AA#9 or #7 based on the AA and Hornady load data. AA#9 there is load data for, but creates higher velocity than I want. There is no load data I have found for #7 and a 300g jacketed bullet, but after several calculations it looks like 21.0-23.0 grains is a reasonable range. I could try it out, but then I'll be starting from scratch again. I'm leaning toward Viht since Speer mentions reduced flash and blast. It may be a pleasant shooting powder. Plus it's already listed in the Speer, Hornady and Viht manuals that I have access to so I won't have to start from scratch. The hard part is finding Viht locally.

Only 5 weeks until the scheduled pig hunt, and 9 until the deer opener in California's D14. Gotta get a move on.
 

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Searoy,

Interesting your observation on the thickness of the brass in relationship to this sticking cases. It would be both instructive and useful if you would weigh a sampling of say five cases of each brand of brass, then fill them to the top with water and re-weigh them, then calculate the capacity of each in grains of water for a comparison. It might be VERY interesting.

As you're finding in your education handloading there are many not so obvious variables that play into this whole affair. Internal case capacity is one of those that sadly gets overlooked much of the time. Brass cases are NOT all created equal!

Thanks for the updates on your progress!

God Bless
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Searoy, I tried to respond to your email message but it didn't go through for some reason. Also sent you a PM.

Good luck on your hunting.
 

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Hi Marshall, Mike and anyone else who might read this,

Re: .454 Split case mouths
Has anyone tried annealing the case mouths using either the "melted lead" or the "blowtorch" methods ? It would seem to me that with the really deep crimps used for hot loads in the .454, that the case mouths would be getting a lot of stretching, sizing and crimping and annealing might help.

Hey, Searoy !
I've got maybe 30 different powder types in my cabinet, but none that relates to the "WSF" you mention. Please tell this old man what it is so I can get some. It seems to me that you're doin' just great with the .454.

Anyone:
Is there anyone that you know , or have heard of, that would disagree with the following: No matter how well they may be shooting groups right now, they will do better with less felt recoil ! Read again closely before you guys set fire to your pants are tell me what a wimp I must be.

But for the life of me I cannot understand why no one has sent me an e-mail requesting my discovery of items readily available in stores that cut felt recoil in whatever pistol I use them on-----especially the hot .454's!! I do notice that the more macho guys at the range seem to act like a sissy if they try my gadgets, tell me that the felt recoil was reduced and tell me that their groups WERE slightly smaller---but THEY won't wear the things either !!! You'd think I was trying to get them to wear a girdle or shorts outside their pants ( like Superman) instead of just sharing something that has helped me a lot.

;) Chuck
 

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Hey Chuck,

I just tried sending you a PM for the second time
regarding your previous recoil post.

Not sure what has gone haywire.



But, more to the question,

Other than adding weight like a scope,
Porting the weapon, Wearing gloves,
Changing the grips, and/or changing the
load to a milder one,

what can be done?

I realize that FELT recoil is as much between the
ears as in the bruised hands.

One trick I've used to reduce the deafening crack
is to wear both in-the-ear foam plugs AND a pair
of quality shooting muffs.

Doesn't do much for the slap in the face,
or the actual recoil of the pistol, but it
seems to prolong my good shooting before the
recoil, muzzle blast, and streched eardrum induced
hebe-jeebees get to me, and my
concentration goes down the drain.



BigMikeG
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hey Chuck,

I believe WSF replaced 540. I can't find 540 anywhere new. I started this on my own looking for similar performance to HS6. I used powder companies' own comparisons between their powder and other companies powders as well as correlated data from data sets using other powders and WSF. For the most part I copies HS6 and 540 data I found on the FA website, but I believe there is enough difference in 540 and WSF that lighter loads are required.

What all that means is I tried to guess my minimum and maximum loads and I came up a little hot and had to back down.

Again, I really wound up not liking the WSF, since there is quite a pop and spit each trigger pull, and it does rock quite a bit harder than factory loads in my buddies SBH 44mag. I don't mind the kick, and will likely more to something hotter. This has the potential of "feeling" like less recoil due to a slower "push" and less of a "crack." It's the blasting and spitting that is annoying.

My plan to "reduce" felt recoil is to shoot often enough to just get used to it, and maybe build up a callus on my second finger. I also make sure that my grip is in line with my wrist, forearm, elbow and shoulder.

I also just accept that the gun is going to rock my world, and that there is nothing I can do about it. Learning to relax and let the gun do what's it's going to do has come a long way in tightening my groups. My buddy can't seem to get over that and still has trouble tightening his groups with his SBH or Anaconda. I'm not opposed to recoil reducing gadgets, but until I'm pushing a 300 grainer to over 1600 fps, or even a hotter load, I'd rather not get used to the easy way. I'll save the tricks for my 360 grain hard cast load. I'll need it then.

Marshal, I'll try to weight the brass soon. I'm interested in the results too.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Chuck,

WSF = Winchester Super Field. It is nominally a shotgun powder (as are HS6 and 540, for that matter). Hope this helps.
 

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Hi Searoy And Mikeg,

Thanks For The Info About The Old 540 Powder. I May Even Still Have Some Of That.

Searoy, When You Are 69 Years Old, Have Arthritis In Many Body Parts, Have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome In Your Shooting Wrist, Have Glaucoma, Cataracts In Your Eyes And Diabetes----and You Love Shooting Too Much To Give It Up----then, My Friend, You'll Be Ready For The S&w 500 Or Maybe A 50 Bmg Pistol As Long As You Can Get The Recoil Reduced.

But To Each His Own In All Things. With Competition Shooting, There Are Many Limitations On What You Can Do To Your Gun, But Few About What You Can To To Your Body. No Matter What Type Of Shooting You Do, You Are The Exception Rather Than The Rule, If By Reducing Felt Recoil Your Shooting Does Not Improve. Years Ago When I Was Shooting National Match Large Bore Rifle And Pistol, I'd Have Given Anything For Even A P.a.s.t. Recoil Pad When Shooting The '06 And The .45 Acp..
:) Chuck
 
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