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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to find some good loads for my 12" Encore .454 Casull with H110, and I can't get anything to group! I'm shooting cast bullets from 250 gr. to 370 gr, and nothing is under 3" at 25 yds yet, and most groups are well over that. It's not the gun because it loves Unique and almost any weight bullet, but I wouldn't mind having a little more punch that Unique provides, although a 300 gr. bullet at 1400 fps is probably enough for deer, it groups about an inch at 100 yds, one big hole at 25 yds, so I know it's not the gun. If any of you have and tried and proven (safe) loads with H110 and the .454, please shoot me some info, if you don't want to post it, email me at [email protected].
Thanks,
Selmer
 

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Have you checked out the Load Swap section yet? I have several loads with H110 posted there but they are for the FA revolver. Reduce and work up but not below the minimum suggested by Hodgdon. Reference to a manual as the loads I have listed were developed by John Taffin and sent to me and I do not recall how they reference to manuals, but they are safe in a FA revolver. I don't know about the Encore.
 

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Chrono the loads. Odds are, you are getting inconsistent ignition, especially if you are trying to hold the loads down.

That's the dilemma of reduced loads, accuracy often suffers.
 

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I agree 100% with BigMike...I seem to remember seeing loads formulated for the encore and they were even hotter than the standard loads a few grains or so, not less, always stay with in your manual loads, I have a powder manual at home that includes the encore, i will have to check when i get home and I will report back, just can't remember what manual, getting old LOL. Aim small hit small. RAMbo.
 

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Selmer,
are you trying to go faster or slower with the H110? If you're going faster, and using plain based lead bullets, you may have exceeded the bullets ability to handle the velocity you are attaining. Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm trying to go accurate, I don't care what the velocity is, but I would prefer it over 1500 fps, cause I got a super-accurate load with Unique and the 300 gr. Keith gas-checked bullet that runs about 1350-1400 out of my Encore, so maybe I'm being redundant, that should be plenty to kill a whitetail, right...
BTW, I'm using cast bullets around 18bhp and they are gas-checked, so it shouldn't be because of that.
Selmer
 

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Try 31grs of H110 300gr GC WFN, come out off my SRH at 1620 FPS and print about .75" at 25 yards about 2" at 100. Nice snappy load.
 

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I would suggest gas checked bullets. I am unsure if you were using them or not.

Also you need to have a good heavy crimp. Too loose and the bullet will jump in the cases of the unfired rounds. And H110 will not ignite properly or should I say not as good.

There are many variables to check also. Bullet Diameter, Bullet Hardness. Brass length (whether they are the same)
and many more that I cant think of at this moment.


Keep trying and be safe

MK
 

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Another quick thought regarding your dilemma with the H110 loads. Unique and other powders in this burning class work fine even with mediocre crimps. However, H110/W296 is a horse of a different color! If you don't have absolutely perfect crimps, well tucked into the crimp groove, preferrably using a Redding Profile Crimp Die or the Lee Precision Factory Crimp Die, then odds are that you'll have irradic start pressures, yielding surprisingly high SD values. This in turn will make your group sizes go wildly huge as you describe experiencing.

In addition to making sure that you're at least within the minimum charge weights recommended by Hodgdon, double check that crimp, and do some serious experimentation with crimp technique vs. accuracy.

Too, check your expander ball diameter to make sure that it isn't excessive, and that you've got enough case neck tension on those bullets as well. That alone can also cause the symptoms you describe.

Lastly, if you're working on the low-end of the charge weights recommended by Hodgdon with H110/W296 and desiring the velocities generated by those loads, you'll find that AA #9 will give similar velocity levels, but not be nearly as sensitive to loading density. AA #9 doesn't have to operate in the top 5% of the pressure envelope for efficient burn and consistent performance as does H110/W296.

This should give you some ideas to work with and hopefully cure your frustrating experiences. Please let us know how things work out for you!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Power for Deer

Selmer -

In the middle of your opening question, you did mention shooting deer. Going to H110 and all kinds of experimentation can be a fun challenge, but if you are really getting 1400 fps with a 300 gr. .454 bullet and 1" groups at 100 yards, that probably means every deer is a dead deer with a big hole completely through it, assuming a good lead bullet. Sounds like a great load with no apologies necessary. You don't have to use an atomic bomb when something smaller will do the job. Am I right, guys?

I'm real curious - how's the buck and roar with that combination in that 12" Encore??
 

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Greenhorn Dave
Your correct if he has a load that is accurate (1400 fps) it will do deer just nicely. Since I hunt Mulely's you need a little more punch so my load comes out around 1620 fps. Bigger deer-longer distances.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I have finished my load development for the year, and here's what I've come up with.
Plinker-10 gr. Unique, 255 gr. keith, Lyman #452424, great accuracy to 50 yds., negligible recoil, comparatively, doesn't mess up squirrel meat. :)
Medium hunting load-14 gr. Unique, 300 gr. Keith, RCBS mould, this is my accurate moderate load, fun to shoot, gets an oil bottle every time at 100 yds.
Heavier hunting load- 30.5 gr. H110, 300 gr. XTP-MAG, hits pretty hard, very accurate, cleans the leading out of my barrel :)
Heaviest so far-27 gr. H110, 320 gr. cast LFN, twenty shots max at the bench, 1" groups at 100 yds., should work for anything I'll ever hunt
I still have 330 gr., 355 gr, 360 gr., and 370 gr. bullets to check out with H110, and I haven't opened the Accurate #9 or HS-6 powders yet on my bench, if you have any good loads for those two powders, regardless of velocity, let me know and I'll try them out.
To those wondering why I'm not using the moderate load, I will, but what handloader is going to quit with one load when he has so many possibilities, and the recoil is manageable, but I also have a set of custom Recoil Tamer grips from Denzel Roberts to tame it a little, and I never shot it with factory, but I can't imagine that factory grips are any better.
Selmer
 

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Hi Selmer,

None of the others, like myself, who'd give one of their body parts to be able to shoot a 1" group at 100 yards, have the
gonads to say, " I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO YOU FOR MANY MANY REASONS FOR BRINGING THAT OFF. I HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TAKES TO ACCOMPLISH THAT FEAT, AND ENOUGH KNOWLEDGE TO HAVE GREAT RESPECT FOR THOSE WHO DO."

Please give me the particulars of that load: Whose bullet ? Where can I get some? Are they gas checked ? Do they come that way ? What powder and what amount do you use ? ( I'll start lower and work up to it in my Bugger Ruger SRH.) What primer did you use ? What is the twist of the barrel you shot them in ? Which scope did you use ? Which power did you use ? Where did you get the data for your load ?

If you know any other people who can shoot 1" groups with a .454 casull at 100 yards, you certainly hang around a whole different bunch of people that I do ! If there are anymore out there who would like to help this old, blind man, PLEASE send me YOUR data as well. I'll be forever grateful.

:confused: Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
csward, I don't think I'm doing anything special, I had an XP-100 in 7BR that would shoot -1" all day long at 100yds, and I don't keep rifles that I can't keep under 1" for groups. The .454 specs are this
320 gr. cast bullet with gas check, the bullets are made by Lloyd Smale, I trade him linotype for them, you can contact him over on Graybeard.
The gun is an Encore with a factory 12" barrel, I think it's a 1-16" twist, it has a Leupold 4x EER mounted on it in Redfield triple rings that have been lapped.
The powder is H110, CCI BR-4 with Starline cases that were twice fired. Other than that, I square case mouths, clean out primer pockets, just the standard case prep, each load is weighed separately. I can't remember where I got the data, I've been surfing the net looking for heavier bullet data, I may have gotten it off of LoadSwap. Any other questions, go ahead, I group all of my loads off of a bench with sandbags. I can't put pictures directly in here, but for those in doubt I can email them.
Selmer
 

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Hi Selmer,

To shoot 1" groups with an xp 100 in 7mmBR is like "dancing", but doing it with a revolver in .454 Casull is dancing like Brittany Spears !!!!!.

Thank you for your reply, but you didn't say how many grains of H 110 you used, was this intentional ?

You may not be DOING anything "special", but I want to be the first to say that your shooting is DEFINATELY "special"!!!

I have never doubted your word, selmer. I don't need photo images----only your word.

Good luck with the coming hunting season, selmer.

Sorry I can't help you with your 25 yard groups with H 110. I do different stuff than you do, apparently. But I like 185 gr, Montana Gold jhp bullets and Universal powder for low velosity but pretty accurate groups at 25 yards. I'm still trying to get less than 1.1" groups with those components, but I doubt you are interested in that. I'm just small time compared to you, selmer. Thanks for the help.

:D Chuck
 

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Try 29.5g H110 with a 300g bullet, i used the tcbb from larado crimped in the back cannelure and get 1450 fps
 

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Hi Zeppelin,

Thanks for the info. I use a Bugger Ruger SRH 7 1/2" barrel. What kind of accuracy can that gun be expected to deliver at 100 yards? Not ME, Zep, the GUN ! heh heh A big difference !

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #18
csward, I said in a previous reply that I was using 27 gr. of h110 behind that 320gr. cast bullet, using a heavy crimp, one full turn of my Lee Factory crimp die. And I'm glad you think what I'm doing with that is special, I'm just happy it shoots that good. I consider myself a pretty good rifle and shotgun shooter, I made the South Dakota State University small-bore team and did fairly well in that, but I'm just shooting to have fun and put meat on the table.
Selmer
 

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Hi selmer,

I'm sorry you had to reoeat yourself and that I missed the "27 gr" part of your message. I'll print this out so it doesn't happen again.

If a group of people placed all the shooters on a pedestal who were able to shoot like you do with a revolver in .454 Casull, I suspect you'd be pretty lonely up there ( and bored ) with so few to talk to.

Thanks for the help. I gathered you were not on an ego trip by the wording of your threads. God bless you.

:D Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #20
csward, one more thing, I see you have gotten the impression that I'm doing this with a revolver, I think I mentioned back there a ways that I'm using a 12" factory Encore barrel on my Encore frame that is chambered in .454 Casull with a 1-16" twist, maybe that's why you seem so enthralled with the results I'm getting.
Selmer


csward said:
Hi selmer,

I'm sorry you had to reoeat yourself and that I missed the "27 gr" part of your message. I'll print this out so it doesn't happen again.

If a group of people placed all the shooters on a pedestal who were able to shoot like you do with a revolver in .454 Casull, I suspect you'd be pretty lonely up there ( and bored ) with so few to talk to.

Thanks for the help. I gathered you were not on an ego trip by the wording of your threads. God bless you.

:D Chuck
 
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