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Discussion Starter #1
Gentlemen
I got a question that needs to be answered- Yesterday I went out to test a load for my P90 ,which I though would be at a good starting load -boy did I get a surprise. How about a 45 ACP at 1200 FPS!!! :eek:
This was my first loading with this powder and I though it would be a lite load compared to the loads in the Manual (Speer #13-Winchester) should have been in the low 800's.

Load Data used: 230gr LTC, 4.8 - 5.7 was the max. So I loaded three rounds at the following specs.

230 LTC 5.0 gr W231, OAL 1.2
1. 1194 FPS
2. 1205 FPS
3. Stopped there.
Any suggestions on why I'm seeing such a difference in what is published? Even looking through the load Data here and on other boards I should not be seeing these kinds of numbers? I've seen data for Cast 230 load as high as 6.0 gr with this powder posted. Help!!
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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I'd think that the problem may be your chrono. I have loaded more 231 than that, with a heavier bullet (255gr), in a P90. MV on that load was just under 900fps.

Any other pressure signs from the two fired cases?

I would suggest, if you don't have any bad pressure signs on the cases, try moving the chrono several feet further out. Make one shot, with the mag removed from the gun (in case the case lets go).

Also, before you do that, pull a couple of rounds and verify the powder charge.

I have a hard time believing that a person could get 1200fps from a .45 auto, with that bullet weight, without something blowing up.
 

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chrono check

It sounds like your chrono to me also, or at least a bad reading. How close were you to the chrono when shooting. If there is nothing wrong with the chrono, and you are closer than 10 feet to the screens, you could be measuring the muzzle blast shock wave. I once got a reading from a .22 LR pistol of over 3,000 fps! It had started to rain and I moved the chrono under the roof, which made the muzzle only a foot from the start screen. Got one heck of a reading, but I highly doubt that the little 39 gr. bullet was actually going 3K+ fps, don't you? That kind of reading with that bullet and that load makes me think the shock wave is tripping the screens.
 

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If you think the problem is with the chronograph, please don't try to find the problem with that load. My personal rule is always believe the chrono, unless the error is obvious. You don't have obvious errors yet, in my book. Fast powder... small case...PISTOL. Be careful...


PS The one and only time I failed to trust my chrono, I drove a 500 (yes 500) gr Hawk from my .416 Rem at 2455 fps (6500 fp!!), and had to make a trip to the gunsmith.
 

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I would check the charge weight by pulling the bullet on a few rounds. If you don't have a bullet puller, get one. This will be tough to do with the kinetic type if that is what you have. The easeist way to do this with a 45 may be to buy and extended shell holder and raise the shell up in the press with no die in it and clamp a vise-grip on the bullet and draw the case down with the press. The load shouldn't be that fast. I've used 231 with every bullet wieght in the 45, excepting the 260 gr and have never had velocities approaching that with the combination you're using. I've had to replace a cracked barrel in a long slide comp gun before, so I pull bullets when in doubt.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Gentlemen
Thanks for the replies, I'm leaning towards something other than the chrono problem-it was about 7' from the muzzle when these were fired,Book says 6'-10' from muzzle more for Magums. Also I have had no other misreads until I shot these rounds- I might have made a mistake and loaded these with Mag primers, I was loading some heavy rounds prior to doing these up.:eek: Could this create the extra FPS?
 

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Yes a mag primer will add some velocity but not 300 fps more. You have a chronograph problem.
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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The latest Handloader shows the following in a Brian Pierce article about Winchester powders:

.45 ACP
230gr FMJ
5.7gr WW231, ~835fps

230gr. Lead Round Nose
5.2gr. WW231, reported as a similar velocity as load above.

Case brand, primer, and OAL not specified for either load.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Gentleman
Well I guess I load some more up and give them a try again, and see what we get. I'll even move the Chrono out to 10 ' to ensure blast is not a factor. Question, if it is the chrono how do you fix it if you can or do you have send it back to the manufacture? Don't remember reading any repair procedures in the manual. :)
 

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One more thought -

If you have the folding type of chrono be sure that it is flat. Any bend and the distance between the sensors is reduced and velocity goes up.

Also, if you are using an artificial light centered over the chrono the shadow of the bullet crosses the first sensor late and gets to the second sensor early, with the same result...high readings.
 

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You might want to pull a bullet and weigh the powder. It's cheaper than a new slide and new glasses.

I would think you'd notice the magnum velocity with it's startling recoil, though...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Charlie Z
Recoil was definately more than normal! I know for sure the powder charge was correct -but I'm thinking that I did put Mag primers in them, did a count on loads I did that day and number of primers left- 300 CCI box had three more than it should have:rolleyes: What a bone head!
 

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Gunnut, did you figure this out? Pull that third bullet and weigh the charge, chrono issues....? You got me wondering.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OHH Probably a Grain or more to much! !!!!!! But since I was at the starting load piont it saved my Fingers and face!! Lesson learned:D Just goes to show don't ever become complacant went loading your own!!:mad:
 

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A trick I use to double check myself on the scale is to also use the Lee dipper when starting off. The volume is a good sanity check. Just select the dipper giving a charge that is the first level BELOW the charge you are about to weigh, and use it to add powder to the scale. Should take 1 scoop and then some more, but not much more!!. The complete dipper it is $7.95 from Midway, and has a slide rule that lets you select the powder and read charge weights for all of the dippers. Very fast and useful.

It has saved me many times...
 

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The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Good suggestion with the dipper, and also I check my scale with check weights before every loading session, and after as well. I pick a combination of the weights that is fairly close to what the desired charge is. Electronic scales can lie to you sometimes!
 

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Although electronic scales can sometime lie, I suggest all loaders have one. I bought one when RCBS first came out with one. I think I paid about $319 in 1992 money for it, which was a bunch. Nowadays you can have one for about a bill. I'm not rich, I work for a livin', and this seems exceptionally reasonable. If you cast bullets, it's a must have. Mine came with check weights, so I didn't have to pay extra. I've had it for at LEAST 10 years. Ammortize the price and it's $32 dollars a year at the price I paid. If one of the newer ones last 2 years, it's cheaper in todays dollars. It's a investment I've never had reason to regret. Although I've never had a problem with mine through 3 moves, I'd suggest you have the weights and check it frequently.
 
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