Not sure were to post this one so im gonna try her first. I was watching a show that stated the 5.7 out of a FN pistol is traveling at 2100 fps with a 32 grain pill. Are those numbers very similar to a 22 mag. I think a 30 grain 22 mag is traveling at 2200 fps out of a rifle barrel. They were saying that it was good for defeating body armour. Would the 22 mag do the same job. Just curious force=mass x velocity so it would be the same or no. Thanks for any thoughts
5.7 Fn
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What I've Heard
The 5.7 wil shoot the same weight,at the same speed,outta a pistol as the 22mag will shoot it outta a rifle. Only one of the loadings of the 5.7 will(maybe/kinda) defeat body armor. Remember a hot loaded 44 mag will not and a .223 will zip thru it like a hot knife through butter.
A 22mag will not defeat body armor generally unless hand loaded with the right bullet. Neither will a 12ga slug or a load of "OO" Buck. -----pruhdlr
The 5.7 wil shoot the same weight,at the same speed,outta a pistol as the 22mag will shoot it outta a rifle. Only one of the loadings of the 5.7 will(maybe/kinda) defeat body armor. Remember a hot loaded 44 mag will not and a .223 will zip thru it like a hot knife through butter.
A 22mag will not defeat body armor generally unless hand loaded with the right bullet. Neither will a 12ga slug or a load of "OO" Buck. -----pruhdlr
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It is the same pistol round used by the Hunk-O'Krap that shot up Ft. Hood. The FN 5.7 crowd will get the vapors if you compare the pistol ballistics of the FN round to a .22 mag rimfire - but on paper they are very simlar. In ballistic gelatin they look pretty similar
http://www.brassfetcher.com/SS195 FMJ and SS197 ballistic tip (bare and heavy clothing).html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/22MagnumVariousRifle.html
Like the best test results, I use the Winchester 40 grain JHP .22 mag
http://www.brassfetcher.com/SS195 FMJ and SS197 ballistic tip (bare and heavy clothing).html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/22MagnumVariousRifle.html
Like the best test results, I use the Winchester 40 grain JHP .22 mag
The point is - though the ballistic numbers are similar - you are comparing a rifle to a pistol. People have said, "I might as well get a .22 magnum." OK. Are you gonna carry a rifle in your pocket? The 5-7 is a pistol with a barrel less than five inches long. Loaded, it weighs less than my Glock 36.
Stock - out of the box it wiil produce four inch groups at 100 yards.
Premium ammo from Elite Ammunition, in fact, shoots a 40 grain bullet at about 2100 fps from the pistol; that is substantially more than a .22 magnum in any case.
Obviously, I am a fan of the cartridge and the pistol - I think of it as a varmint rifle that I can carry in my pocket.
I have no problem with ballistic comparisons to the .22 magnum - as long as people realize that they are comparing a rifle to a pistol. .22 magnum ballistics from a pistol fall far behind the ballistics of the 5.7. A more apt comparison for the 5.7 Elite ammo would be to a 115 (or 124) grain FMJ 9mm factory load, though the 5.7 Elite rounds have about 40 ft/lbs more energy than that 9mm loading does. (5.7 = 389/ 9mm 115 = 345). In gel tests the Elite stuff, not the FN loads, gave 13 inches of penetration with a 3.3 inch wound cavity.
Pete
PS - again, to demonstrate the difference. Check this video about penetration (and expansion) of the 197/195 fired from a pistol vs. a 22 magnum fired from a rifle. It is interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0npFXEHfeA0&feature=fvw
P
Stock - out of the box it wiil produce four inch groups at 100 yards.
Premium ammo from Elite Ammunition, in fact, shoots a 40 grain bullet at about 2100 fps from the pistol; that is substantially more than a .22 magnum in any case.
Obviously, I am a fan of the cartridge and the pistol - I think of it as a varmint rifle that I can carry in my pocket.
I have no problem with ballistic comparisons to the .22 magnum - as long as people realize that they are comparing a rifle to a pistol. .22 magnum ballistics from a pistol fall far behind the ballistics of the 5.7. A more apt comparison for the 5.7 Elite ammo would be to a 115 (or 124) grain FMJ 9mm factory load, though the 5.7 Elite rounds have about 40 ft/lbs more energy than that 9mm loading does. (5.7 = 389/ 9mm 115 = 345). In gel tests the Elite stuff, not the FN loads, gave 13 inches of penetration with a 3.3 inch wound cavity.
Pete
PS - again, to demonstrate the difference. Check this video about penetration (and expansion) of the 197/195 fired from a pistol vs. a 22 magnum fired from a rifle. It is interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0npFXEHfeA0&feature=fvw
P
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Lets All remember.....
.......that this chambering was developed for killing the opponent during wartime. And....this,using a penetrating type of bullet.
Then along came a pistol chambered for the same round and it got the rep as a "22mag". I will agree that it is not compared as apples to apples. The firearm that the bullet comes out of makes an a huge difference in the performance of the loading. This,we are mandated to compare evenly as we do a 308 outta a 14" T/C and outta a 26" bolt gun.
The 5.7 is not for me,however the PS90 is an interesting weapon. I have shot several and you can keep the full auto version on a man sized target at 50m fairly easily. A better shooter than I,so I'm told,can do it at 100m. Try that with a 5.56 sometimes.
I believe that the FN 5.7 pistol gets it's draw primarily from its mag capacity. Weather this is due to the "spray and pray'ers" or not is debatable. As a CCW weapon it is definitely not for me. But....with it's mag capacity, if carried, I would easily give the BG at least 3 before moving on to the next.
As above stated the weapons,both rifle and pistol are not for me,but.....before anyone states that they would never own one,do yourself a favor and shoot one. They are fun !! ----pruhdlr
.......that this chambering was developed for killing the opponent during wartime. And....this,using a penetrating type of bullet.
Then along came a pistol chambered for the same round and it got the rep as a "22mag". I will agree that it is not compared as apples to apples. The firearm that the bullet comes out of makes an a huge difference in the performance of the loading. This,we are mandated to compare evenly as we do a 308 outta a 14" T/C and outta a 26" bolt gun.
The 5.7 is not for me,however the PS90 is an interesting weapon. I have shot several and you can keep the full auto version on a man sized target at 50m fairly easily. A better shooter than I,so I'm told,can do it at 100m. Try that with a 5.56 sometimes.
I believe that the FN 5.7 pistol gets it's draw primarily from its mag capacity. Weather this is due to the "spray and pray'ers" or not is debatable. As a CCW weapon it is definitely not for me. But....with it's mag capacity, if carried, I would easily give the BG at least 3 before moving on to the next.
As above stated the weapons,both rifle and pistol are not for me,but.....before anyone states that they would never own one,do yourself a favor and shoot one. They are fun !! ----pruhdlr
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Before anyone starts with more about the 5.7 penetration body armor, remember those rounds are NOT readily availible and restricted to military and law enforcement only. There are also two types of body armor, soft (kelvar fabrics) and hard plates. The 5.7 AP will go thru soft but not hard plates. This cartridge is also 20 years old. I pick up a few cases on the range in Germany after our "D" boys had been training there.
That treasonous traitor of a US Army Major did use one to cause all the damage at Fort Hood. Yes, the comparison of the .22 Mag from a rifle to the 5.7 pistol is very close, same way a .22 Mag from a pistol gives .22LR ballistics from a rifle.
CD
That treasonous traitor of a US Army Major did use one to cause all the damage at Fort Hood. Yes, the comparison of the .22 Mag from a rifle to the 5.7 pistol is very close, same way a .22 Mag from a pistol gives .22LR ballistics from a rifle.
CD
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Keep in mind that a 22 WMR gets significantly less velocity when fired from a handgun than it does when fired from a rifle. This is one of the intended advantages of the 5.7x28mm cartridge. There are also big differences in the bullets. There aren't really a lot of spitzer (pointed) bullets for 22 WMR. 22 WMR bullets are also frequently copper plated rather than copper jacketed. There are probably only a couple of loadings with bullets tough enough to hold together while going through body armor.
As for the availability of armor piercing ammunition for the 5.7, what has been restricted is ammunition marketed as armor piercing. The other loadings of 5.7 are likely also capable of penetrating body armor, but are not sold as having that purpose. It is a public relations gimmick, as is the designation of the cartridge as an "anti-terrorist" round. Furthermore, I don't believe the restricted availability comes with the force of law. I suspect it is both possible and legal for civilians to obtain the armor piercing cartridges. Finally, the 5.7 can easily be handloaded with an FMJ bullet that accomplishes the feat.
You won't see me volunteering to wear body armor while someone fires any variety of either the 5.7x28mm or 22 WMR cartridges at me.
As for the availability of armor piercing ammunition for the 5.7, what has been restricted is ammunition marketed as armor piercing. The other loadings of 5.7 are likely also capable of penetrating body armor, but are not sold as having that purpose. It is a public relations gimmick, as is the designation of the cartridge as an "anti-terrorist" round. Furthermore, I don't believe the restricted availability comes with the force of law. I suspect it is both possible and legal for civilians to obtain the armor piercing cartridges. Finally, the 5.7 can easily be handloaded with an FMJ bullet that accomplishes the feat.
You won't see me volunteering to wear body armor while someone fires any variety of either the 5.7x28mm or 22 WMR cartridges at me.
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