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Mr. Stanton:      Really interested in a .50 cal  but after shooting my guide gun in 450 Marlin from prone for 20 rounds 1 day I think I need more weight and a different stock design.  I love the look of the 50 Alaskan and note that WIN used the basic 348 case dimensions to design their new short magnum.  I have a 416/350 short action Ruger that I would not mind rebarelling as it has never shot well.  If the 300WSM was necked up with minimum taper could it be given enough shoulder to headspace well.  Might this fat case feed well through an unaltered Ruger short magazine rifle?  What sort of ballistics could I expect out of a fat 20" barrell?Is this a practical conversion?
 

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Greg,

Interesting, prospect!  In looking at the WSM case, I think a lack of sufficient shoulder could be a problem.  However, I'll look some more at the prospect.

Perhaps we could get our resident wildcat expert, James Gates to look at the projects with his experienced, critical eye.  Perhaps he could shed some more light on the idea!

Time will tell!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Marshall, I am in the middle of moving south from Nunavut to the southern NWT and my reference materials are scattered hither and yon.  I think I remember reading that  the 300WSM is a rimmed improved version of the .348 Win.  I know the 50 Alaskan based on the 348 has no shoulder and headspaces on the rim but I forget how much taper is in the case.  I could rechamber the existing barrell to .416/300WSM and get Taylor performance from a short action but I think that the existing barrell is the reason for the poor accuracy of the existing rifle.  Besides something about caliber 50 stirs my imagination.  Are the Remington short magnums based on the ULTRA mag line any larger in diameter?  I'd rather go with the Win case as Winchester seems to honor it's dud cartridges better than Remington.  I have collected about 800 rounds of 6.5 Rem Mag to keep my two going while I believe you can still buy .225 Win.  Thanks again.
 

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Hi, Greg:
  Barnes Cartridge of the World gives the .348 base dia. as .553" but the one case in my cartridge collection only goes .546" Barnes gives the .404 Nitro Express base as .544" and mine is .543". Could be a draw. The .404 is the base for the Ultras, Dakotas and a dozen wildcats.  I'll leave the rest to Mr. Gates.

  Noticed an add for 100 unfired 6.5 Rem Mag here.
<a href="http://www.gunsamerica.com/shownonguns.cgi?guncat=9260

Bye" target="_blank">http://www.gunsamerica.com/shownonguns.cgi?guncat=9260

Bye</a>
Jack
 

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How about .300 WSM necked to .45 cal?  Should be close to .458 Win Mag ballistics, in a short action rifle!  Sounds awfully painful to me, though.
 

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The big 50 may sound like a winner, but 45cal bullets are the performance kings in the accuracy dept. A 400-500 grain 45 bullet will outperform any 50cal offering. The 50-110 winchester died quickly as an example. Course it was launching a 300gr pipsqueak bullet at 2000fps that lost velocity like a tennis ball. There are many reasons the 45-70 hung around all these years while the other 45-90's and 50cal died. It is about optimum performance that can be comfortably handled in a light rifle without a set of wheels attached. In order to be proficient and accurate, you have to practice and enjoy shooting the round. The old saw of "I'll practice with light loads and save the heavy ones for hunting "don't get it in my book. A flinch is hard to get rid of once developed from noise OR recoil.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks all.  Sounds like the two short action rounds are not quite fat enough to have a usable shoulder at 50 cal .  Ahh well, likely it is too much of a good thing anyway.  The 416/350 has a light barrell coming in at around 7 pounds and 12 rounds from prone with 350 grain bullets is not much fun.  I like the idea of a 50 just to play with something different as I have owned a 458 Win and now own a 450 Marlin.  I do like the 45's though interestingly enough on caribou my 6.5 Rem Mag with 120 grain Sierras at 3000 ft/sec tends to have a higher percentage of fast kills than the big 45's do.  The quick shock of a speedy bullet seems better suited to smaller game although if I had a curious polar bear outside the old wall tent I prefer the big 45's, and if I can figure out a way to build a .50, I will.
 

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Greg, If a 50 is a must have thing with you, have you thought about a 505 gibbs shortened to work in a short action? It may be too big, to wide, to function thru a normal action. But there is no doubt it is big enough for a good shoulder for headspacing since that is what it is in its full length configuration. It may be too much trouble and expense. I will have to deferr to James or Marshall as the final word on this as I don't have any cartridge dimensions. Just a idea, Joey Sanders
 

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Discussion Starter #9
J:  Thanks for the idea.  I also thought about the Lazzeroni which have a .580 diameter but worry about cost of brass ans was hoping to use the existing magnum bolt face.
 

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Hi, Greg:
   Check out the dimensions of the .500 Jeffery & .505 Gibbs here:
<a href="http://www.fireflysoft.com/FSoft/CartInfo/CartSearch.asp

" target="_blank">http://www.fireflysoft.com/FSoft/CartInfo/CartSearch.asp

</a>    I've got a Gibbs in my cartridge collection and it's fairly enormous.

Bye
Jack
 

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This seems to be a universal idea.  I've been discussing such a project with Fred Zeglin at z-hat (Hawk Wildcats.)

Our discussions extend from .338 up to .458.  As soon as I get a few projects off my plate,  I'm looking at a '375 wsm' in a short-action Browning 81 (old blr) lever gun.  We are looking at taking the rotary bolt head from a 7mm Mag with the face opened up and fitting it to my 243 81.  He thinks the action can be opened up enough to accomidate the fat case.

We settled on the 81 because the preasures needed and in the current-production wsm is 65000psi was too much for most other lever actions.

I'm fairly excited about the outcome of this project even if the lever gun portion of it doesn't pan out.  This should be a great short-action bolt gun project too.  I thought about getting a current-production Winchester and seting up a switch barrel between the factory barrel and the 375.

Be interested in any other wsm wildcat projects in progress/planned.

(Edited by cgdavid at 8<!--emo&:0--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'><!--endemo-->2 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)
 

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cgdavid, from your post that the WSM runs at 65,000psi, I wonder why a wildcat would have run at the same pressures. There are many that don't. Just curious?
 

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You might look into SSK's 50 Whisper.  I'm not sure of it's dimentions but I think it is listed in Cart. of the World, Vol 9.  As to accuracy of the 50, at what range and what accuracy do you expect?  My 50 AK Encore holds it's own and even betters the 45-70 out to 100 yards.  And if you put in a 750 A-MAx bullet, it whips the tar out of it.
 

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RugerNo3

I guess I had not thought of the obvious concerning the preasure.  My line of thought was to match the parent case's available capacity.  Without the preasure limitation. the 375 wsm could be run in any rifle with enough boltface area.  Cretainly, the brass would last a very long time at reduced preasures concidering  how thick and strong it is

Any ideas as to what other lever action might work?  Looking at my Win 86, I think it would be a tall order to get things working and the 86 is the next strongest action that I'm aware of.
 
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