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simple question; what do you guys think of the 6.5 creedmore as a hunting round? never mind the rifle, never mind the scope. just and average whitetale hunting round.
6.5 creedmore
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Its right about the same performance as the .260, so its completely adequate for whitetails.
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Like matt
Good...will do...adaquate...fine...etc,etc.
To me the Creedmore's,Grendel's,LBC's,and others are super hyped. Take a .308(that's right)neck it down to 243,257,264,277,284,and you got a very effective mid to long'ish range deer cartridge.
Only thing now needed would be a fancy-pantsy name and some outlandish claims of accuracy,velocity,and drops at the longer ranges that can never be proven or disproven.
Haaaaay....that'll work !! ----pruhdlr
Good...will do...adaquate...fine...etc,etc.
To me the Creedmore's,Grendel's,LBC's,and others are super hyped. Take a .308(that's right)neck it down to 243,257,264,277,284,and you got a very effective mid to long'ish range deer cartridge.
Only thing now needed would be a fancy-pantsy name and some outlandish claims of accuracy,velocity,and drops at the longer ranges that can never be proven or disproven.
Haaaaay....that'll work !! ----pruhdlr
i'd say that it's just about ideal. last night out of boredome i was perusing through Ken Waters's "Pet Loads" and was rereading his write up on the 6.5x55 with modern powders for the umpteenth time and he made his feelings about the 6.5x55 very clear. the creedmore gives just about identical performance, as does the 260 rem.
if you do a search of this site about the 6.5x55 you'll be overwhelmed with positive responses...
if you do a search of this site about the 6.5x55 you'll be overwhelmed with positive responses...
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3,665 Posts
The Swedes got it right over 110 years ago. 
Whether you choose the 2.165" original, 2.025" Remington, or the 1.920" Creedmoor, you've got a case of similar capacity that drives a 26 caliber bullet to speeds that create an ideal blend of high BC and sectional density. Even if you don't like the "hype" surrounding the 6.5 Creedmoor, there is no way you could downplay its effectiveness as a big game round, given the excellent track record of the 6.5x55 Swede it emulates so well.
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546 Posts
The Creedmore started as a competition round, so it is made to deliver good accuracy and trajectory at long range for punching paper. It can still double as a good hunting round as well.
Bandit,
You've offered your opinion, several times, that the Creedmoor is "an answer to a question no one was asking". I guess I don't understand where you're coming from, because the round was meant to answer the question, "Is there a better case we can deliver a 6.5mm bullet from, for accuracy?" I think it answers the question fairly well, although I tend to think a round is as accurate as the gun it is shot from, along with the guy pulling the trigger.
How is it that your absolute love of the 6.5x55 and 260Rem have evolved into such a disdain for the 6.5Creedmoor, when these three are ballistic triplets? Is a case that is just a little shorter and a little fatter really so bad, when it performs the same magic, once the bullet leaves the barrel?
I'm just askin' here, not trying to stir something up.
You've offered your opinion, several times, that the Creedmoor is "an answer to a question no one was asking". I guess I don't understand where you're coming from, because the round was meant to answer the question, "Is there a better case we can deliver a 6.5mm bullet from, for accuracy?" I think it answers the question fairly well, although I tend to think a round is as accurate as the gun it is shot from, along with the guy pulling the trigger.
How is it that your absolute love of the 6.5x55 and 260Rem have evolved into such a disdain for the 6.5Creedmoor, when these three are ballistic triplets? Is a case that is just a little shorter and a little fatter really so bad, when it performs the same magic, once the bullet leaves the barrel?
I'm just askin' here, not trying to stir something up.
^^ I can't answer for him, but my reasons are completely selfish. Having two similar 'niche' cartridges dilutes demand and popularity suffers. 6.5x55SE will be around for a long time (it's already been around for a long time) but the .260Rem is a newcomer. When it came out, a lot of people seemed to say 'why' for it, as well, since there's already a 6.5x55SE.
Having yet-another cartridge in the same performance space/niche just splits up 'support' for it (support being money) from, say, mass market rifle production and factory ammo selection. Sure, they use the same bullet but since both are somewhat niche, cartridge production will be split between the two on the lower used lines. Example: This Wednesday (3/3) will mark exactly 1 year since I put in a backorder at MidwayUSA for a case of .260Rem ammo. It's a low production cartridge. Splitting 6.5mm fans just means less demand for either. Similarly, demand is already low enough for the .260Rem such that finding a mass production rifle is difficult (pretty much you can only get a Ruger Compact new these days). This limits you to getting custom rifles. My rifle is a T/C Encore and I got a barrel made for it in .260Rem.
It's kind of like having two people run for public office under the same party banner. You have one candidate run as a Democrat and two as Republicans in the same race. What will happen is that the two (R) will split the (R) vote and the (D) is almost sure to win. Except with these, what will happen is that there won't be enough of a market for either of the two to warrant factory cartridge or rifle production, meaning that if you don't reload (like me) you may get in a bind for ammo. And the lack of options for a mass production rifle means that demand won't increase.
I told you my reasons were selfish
However, if the .260Rem does 'die off' and the Creedmoor becomes popular, I'll just get another barrel. Right now, the 6.5x55SE is a 'fallback' for me if the .260 dies off. My plan is to just order a 6.5x55SE barrel for it and switch over (or start reloading). I'd actually prefer that the .260Rem get more popular and have more factory load options, though
Having yet-another cartridge in the same performance space/niche just splits up 'support' for it (support being money) from, say, mass market rifle production and factory ammo selection. Sure, they use the same bullet but since both are somewhat niche, cartridge production will be split between the two on the lower used lines. Example: This Wednesday (3/3) will mark exactly 1 year since I put in a backorder at MidwayUSA for a case of .260Rem ammo. It's a low production cartridge. Splitting 6.5mm fans just means less demand for either. Similarly, demand is already low enough for the .260Rem such that finding a mass production rifle is difficult (pretty much you can only get a Ruger Compact new these days). This limits you to getting custom rifles. My rifle is a T/C Encore and I got a barrel made for it in .260Rem.
It's kind of like having two people run for public office under the same party banner. You have one candidate run as a Democrat and two as Republicans in the same race. What will happen is that the two (R) will split the (R) vote and the (D) is almost sure to win. Except with these, what will happen is that there won't be enough of a market for either of the two to warrant factory cartridge or rifle production, meaning that if you don't reload (like me) you may get in a bind for ammo. And the lack of options for a mass production rifle means that demand won't increase.
I told you my reasons were selfish
However, if the .260Rem does 'die off' and the Creedmoor becomes popular, I'll just get another barrel. Right now, the 6.5x55SE is a 'fallback' for me if the .260 dies off. My plan is to just order a 6.5x55SE barrel for it and switch over (or start reloading). I'd actually prefer that the .260Rem get more popular and have more factory load options, though
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I do alot of reading and I always look at "new and better" cartridges with a careful review. The ONLY advantage of the Creedmore over the 260remington is the slightly longer neck. Put them in the same twist and length barrel, and the 260 is just as good if not better ballistically with any weight bullet.
Now if someone wants to argue that longer case necks are better for accuracy, explain to me why the 300 Win is as accurate as it is, and the 222Rem died? The 300 has a VERY short neck and is commonly used in 1000yd matches, and the triple duece has a very long neck and is hardly ever seen on the ranges anymore.
I think the cartridge and gun MFG industry would be better off making our existing guns and ammo better instead of trying to reinvent the wheel every year. What Remington has done to the 260 is a disgrace and the 6.5x55 should not be ignored stateside like it has been. Just look at all the useless crap feed us every year. The 30TC is another example as is the 17MachII,17HRM, 204 Ruger, 338RUM, 7MMSTW, 375RUM, 450 Marlin, 45GAP, 357SIG, etc.
OK, we're in total agreement that the 6.5x55 is, and always has been, a cartridge that deserves far more popularity in the US, and the 260 was badly short-changed by Remington. They're both fine cartridges, but not measurably "better" than the 6.5 Creedmoor. If the gun companies made great ammo for existing cartridges, and didn't "hype" new offerings, we would just hang onto what we have and they wouldn't sell very many rifles. As much as anything, that is their undoing and why we have to read almost insufferable articles about a "great, new cartridge" that improves very little, if any, on existing rounds.
I think the .270 pretty much has doomed most of the 6.5's to market mediocrity by doing everything a .264" bullet can do, better, except be more efficient. However, if the Creedmoor was the only 6.5 round available to us, and it was well-supported by the gun and ammo companies with plenty of options for both hunting and target, the performance of it would not be a limitation. If what you're saying is that you don't like it because it's just as good as two cartridges you love, making it "unnecessary", I can see your point. When you consider the huge amount of overlap we have in the US big-game rifle market, that's not a reason I would ever use for disliking a certain round.
I think the .270 pretty much has doomed most of the 6.5's to market mediocrity by doing everything a .264" bullet can do, better, except be more efficient. However, if the Creedmoor was the only 6.5 round available to us, and it was well-supported by the gun and ammo companies with plenty of options for both hunting and target, the performance of it would not be a limitation. If what you're saying is that you don't like it because it's just as good as two cartridges you love, making it "unnecessary", I can see your point. When you consider the huge amount of overlap we have in the US big-game rifle market, that's not a reason I would ever use for disliking a certain round.
Yeah, I have no technical reasons why the 6.5 Creedmoor may be 'bad'. In fact, all the reasons I like the .260Rem are equally valid for it (and the 6.5x55SE). If any two of those three were immediately discontinued in all ways (no more barrels, rifles, or ammo), I'd switch to the remaining one without batting an eye.
The other reason why the 6.5s have always had a problem is that people in the USA seem to have some phobia about metric measurements. That's why we see stuff like ".325 WSM", ".260 Remington", and "370 Sako" instead of something like "8mm WSM", "6.5mm Remington" or "6.5x51", and "9.3mm Sako" (the 370 Sako is actually called the 9.3x66 outside of the USA).
The other reason why the 6.5s have always had a problem is that people in the USA seem to have some phobia about metric measurements. That's why we see stuff like ".325 WSM", ".260 Remington", and "370 Sako" instead of something like "8mm WSM", "6.5mm Remington" or "6.5x51", and "9.3mm Sako" (the 370 Sako is actually called the 9.3x66 outside of the USA).
With the notable exception of the 7mm Rem Mag, you're absolutely right! (Ironically, it really doesn't compare well with a number of cartridges with more "standard" US naming conventions, but has still sold very well.)
However, I have not been able to understand why the .260 Remington has failed to become one of the best selling deer cartridges on the market, with the 7mm-08 doing just slightly better. Both are exceptional for XP2-sized game and should be VERY popular, but old stand-bys continue to dominate the market.
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The 260 has suffered because Remington thought they knew better than the Swedes. The 6.5x55 has had a 1-8 or 1-7.5 twist since day one and has the uncanny ability to shoot any .264 bullet into tiny clusters for over 100 yrs. So what did Remington do when they brought out the 260? They put a 1-9 twist on it, and the 260 has issues with 140 grain bullets or heavier no matter what the style.
If the gun MFG want to sell more guns, sell us guns in chamberings we want. At one time you could buy a Model 7 in 260, a model 700 in 6.5x55, a model 77 in 6.5x55 and 260, and the model 70 was also chambered in the 6.5x55. Try calling any of them up and getting those cartridges chambered in any of their guns now. Savage has it right, and the others are stupid. If I want a Savage model 10 in 260, or 358win, all I have to do is ask, and they'll make it for a small set-up fee.
That's how you sell more guns, by giving the customer what they want, not want you want to sell.
If the gun MFG want to sell more guns, sell us guns in chamberings we want. At one time you could buy a Model 7 in 260, a model 700 in 6.5x55, a model 77 in 6.5x55 and 260, and the model 70 was also chambered in the 6.5x55. Try calling any of them up and getting those cartridges chambered in any of their guns now. Savage has it right, and the others are stupid. If I want a Savage model 10 in 260, or 358win, all I have to do is ask, and they'll make it for a small set-up fee.
That's how you sell more guns, by giving the customer what they want, not want you want to sell.
It seems that most of the time on the MS hunting boards I visit I see people asking about .243Win, 7mm-08, .308Win, .270Win, .270WSM, .300WSM, and some larger ones (I see some folks talk about some RUMs and such). There's also a fair amount of interest in .35 Whelen, .45-70, and .444 Marlin because of the private land primitive weapons rules. Of course, I'm usually quick to recommend the .260Rem (and 6.5x55SE) in appropriate threads
edit: Yeah dmsbandit, I'm pretty much convinced that the next bolt-action rifle I get will be a Savage (regardless of cartridge) because in the worst case, I can call them up and ask for one to be made (as long as they've chambered for it in the past).
edit: Yeah dmsbandit, I'm pretty much convinced that the next bolt-action rifle I get will be a Savage (regardless of cartridge) because in the worst case, I can call them up and ask for one to be made (as long as they've chambered for it in the past).
I couldn't agree more! I don't know of any other company who is willing to make the gun YOU want, the way Savage is...all the others could learn from that example. So many shooters are willing to pay a little over the base cost, to get the gun they really want. Why wouldn't ANY gun company realize that and figure out what they need to charge to make a profit, while meeting the customer's needs? I guess it has to do with tooling costs, but whatever Savage is doing to make it happen, I like it.
They may not be the prettiest gun on the market, but they shoot well, don't cost a fortune, are made in the US of A, and they care about customer service. Sounds like a winning combination.
Oh... and yeah, when I got my barrel made for my T/C Encore Pro Hunter, I specified 1:8 twist because I knew I'd be shooting 140gr primarily.
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