Without going to a long action or short-fat magnum, you'd have a difficult time beating your 260Rem, or either of its contemporaries listed in this article: http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/?p=2

In my opinion, the "next thing" for you would be a 6.5-'06 or 6.5x284; the latter being a very successful match cartridge, surpassing the popularity of the parent cartridge by a significant margin. Either would give a couple hundred fps more velocity and make an excellent choice for long-range targets and/or hunting.

 

Agree with broom. I have a 6.5-06 that is one of my favorites, and it is so easy. I use 25-06 brass. You could go down the path of putting one together on the 300/7mm/270 WSM cases, but you won't do much better than the 6.5 Rem Mag, although you would get cheated out of that wildcat experience by choosing the 6.5 RM!

 

You could go down the path of putting one together on the 300/7mm/270 WSM cases, but you won't do much better than the 6.5 Rem Mag, although you would get cheated out of that wildcat experience by choosing the 6.5 RM!

LOL! That's part of the whole thing right? I have had many "vanilla" rifles over the years and I am now looking for that strange rifle that not many other people have. Of course, then there is the argument that there is a reason why everyone else doesn't have that particular caliber.

Basically, I want to get the most I can out of a 6.5mm bullet and am looking to build something. I am not opposed to going long action or even short fat magnum. And of course I am not afraid of a wildcat cartridge. Plus being the only guy on the block to have one.

Shooter 1: "What are you shooting there?"
Shooter 2: "Oh, it's this old 30-06. How about you, what are you shooting?"
Shooter 1" "I am shooting this 270 and I have a 300 Win Mag in the truck. I wonder what that guy is shooting."
Me: "Oh, me? I am shooting this 6.5mm eargensplittenloudenboomer. I built it last winter and it really shoots great."

Having the Wildcat is half the fun.

 

I've been toying with the idea of a 260 AI Rem. Probably marginal gains over the original but interesting anyway.
Also the 6.5 Rem Magnum has my attention, but on a longer barrel, brass is available at Midway for one. Lotsa options out there.
I had a 6.5/284 but put it on a Weatherby MkV and the magazine was too short to get its full potential since I had to seat the bullet too deep for the 140 grain loads. As a single shot, it was very accurate.
Killed another coyote this morning with the 6.5x55, it would be an interesting cartridge blown out Ackley style

Good luck

 

Killed another coyote this morning with the 6.5x55, it would be an interesting cartridge blown out Ackley style

6.5mm Arch

 

Love my 6.5-06AI but that's long action. I think highly of the 260 Rem, too.

 

378 Weatherby to 6.5??? Interesting for sure. I know there is no clear line between what is considered overbore and what isn't. My own personal definition is excess powder for marginal gains. So if the 6.5 Rem Mag is pushing a 140 gr. bullet at 3200 fps with xx.x grains of powder and the eargensplittenloudenboomer is pushing the same bullet at 3300 fps with xx.x (times two) grains of powder the the gains aren't worth the expense and in my book it's overbore.

So if I can get a 6.5-06 to meet a certain velocity but I can get a short action to come close to or match the velocity with less powder then I would rather go with the short action. But if the 6.5-06 is the best velocity for the best powder load, then that's were I want to be.

For instance, I don't think there are great gains with the 264 Win Mag over the 6.5 Rem Mag, but, if I am not mistaken, it requires more powder. Therefore, I would favor the 6.5 Rem Mag over the 264 Win Mag. But if I can get nearly the same results, and more consistent with a Short Mag with even less powder then that's the way I want to go. I just haven't played with each of these enough to know and don't really have the money to play with each.

Therefore, I am reaching into the knowledge base here to get those answers.

 

If you want higher velocity from a 6.5, you must increase the amount of powder being burned and/or the barrel length being used. The term "performance" is a good deal more than velocity, imho.

Below is a list of common 6.5 chamberings and their respective case capacity, in H2O.

6.5x70R, 39
6.5 Jap, 48
6.5x52 Carcano, 49
6.5x53R, 49
.260 Rem, 53
6.5x55, 57
6.5x57(R), 58
** (284Win) 66 (Perhaps 63-64, when necked down?)
6.5-'06 65
6.5 Rem Mag, 68
.264 Win Mag, 82

Many people have tried to quantify the term "over-bore" with various formulas, but I've always felt that barrel throats don't lie: If a given cartridge is loaded to its potential and the result erodes the throat, to the point accuracy suffers, in 3,000 rounds or less, it's clearly overbore. As such, and by consensus, the .264WM is truly over-bore. From this list, anything with more capacity than the 6.5x57R is close to, if not over-bore, for the 26 caliber. The case capacity of the 300 WSM is ~80 grain of H2O, so I would expect a case necked down to .264" to hold around 75gr, putting it somewhere between the 6.5RM and .264WM. Definitely over-bore, in my opinion.

One of the most intriguing options out there to get the most from a 6.5 is the 284 parent, but if you want something different that would also be pretty efficient, consider a 6.5x55AI. That is taking a superb parent case and making it just a little better, without going over-bore, and would certainly be unique enough for most!

Here's an old thread discussing various 6.5 options: http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5439&page=2

 

I did a 6.5/06 awhile back and I like it a lot for it's accuracy, shootability and being able to double up better on small game as well as predator's on occasion too. It has more power for the big game critters than my old 25/06. I think for the bigger game across the spectrum, it will do a more suitable job handling muledeer and larger if need be, especially with those 160 grain bullet weights.

 

I built my 6.5-06AI with up through elk in mind. So, I was thinking specifically of either the Sierra 160 semi-spitzer or, more likely, the Norma Oryx 156. Therefore, I also opted for a faster 1:8" twist.

 

Thank you everyone for all your input. I have been a work for a few days and am a few posts behind.

UnCruel, I can't say that I have read all of your posts but I have read a few and quite frankly, it's your posts about the 6.5 WSM that caused me to sign up for an account here.

How long is your barrel on your 6.5 WSM? If you used a slightly faster powder how would you expect it to shoot out of a 24" or 26" barrel? Or would that be pushing the limits of barrel length?

As I mentioned before, I already have a 260 Rem which I will probably continue to shoot for targets. It's a little slower and the range folks don't seem to complain about steel targets getting torn up as much if the bullets are a little slower.

So this rifle would be more of a hunting, long range hunting rig. Think open range land, antelope, mule deer and elk. And I don't really want a really long barrel for packing around. I would not be opposed to a shorter heavier barrel like a varmit contour.

But again, I am open to suggestions.

 

UnCruel, I can't say that I have read all of your posts but I have read a few and quite frankly, it's your posts about the 6.5 WSM that caused me to sign up for an account here.

How long is your barrel on your 6.5 WSM? If you used a slightly faster powder how would you expect it to shoot out of a 24" or 26" barrel? Or would that be pushing the limits of barrel length?

As I mentioned before, I already have a 260 Rem which I will probably continue to shoot for targets. It's a little slower and the range folks don't seem to complain about steel targets getting torn up as much if the bullets are a little slower.

Aww, shucks

My barrel is 27.5" long, a Broughton stainless steel five-groove with canted lands. With either faster burning powder or a shorter barrel, I would expect lower velocities. Maybe 100-300 fps difference, but that is just a guess.

My primary deer rifle is a .260 Remington, I really like that cartridge as well.

 

Now why not just go whole HOG? Yep, you place that little 6.5 puppy on top of one of those .300 Remington Ultra Mag cases and you will surely get lots of looks at the shooting range. I would suspect your velocity would be at least in the 3400fps range with a 160 grain bullet.

 

lomfs, I have been racking my brain all day to think about short action cartridges that will fit your needs, and I am going to have to say that broom and uncruel have the best options I can think of.

The 6.5X55AI and the 6.5-284 are both great cartridges and have performance gains over the 260 but its minimal. IMHO if you want speed and a harder hitting cartridge, uncruel's 6.5 wsm is the way to go.

But I like the 6.5 caliber a lot and think that if you go with a long action gun, you will have many more choices for a wildcat cartridge. Just my opinion.

 

I have been shooting a 6.5 X 57R ala Gibbs design for the past 3 years. It duplicates the 6.5 X 284 in all bullet weights. This was after I took a 7X65R RWS case did the Gibbs but changed the shoulder to 30 degrees. This one beats the 6.5 X 284 by 150-200fps depending on bullet weight.

I just finished testing a new barrel hardening process in which I did not loose accuracy and gained 100fps with the same load in the same barrel prior to the Ferratic Nitrate bath. The bath which hardens .003 into the steel at 70R stressed relieved both my barrel and action.

Now I am in the process of improving my 6.5WSM which in its current state gets about 4-600 rounds before the match accuracy starts to go. There are a few 6.5 Rums running around as wildcats and the barrel life will even be shorter than the 6.5WSM. To date the smith that has been doing the Nitate hardening process has over a hundred barrels out starting 3 years ago. He requested they each keep a round count and bring the treated barrels back for inspection. As stated, it has been 3 years and no barrels have come back through the door.

Benchmark barrels currently has my reamer and gauge if you find this interesting. It is called the 6.5 Stretch.

Neal

 

the 6.5 on the 378 case has been done, as well as the 284 on the 378 case.
it was not an overwhelming success.
the late joe reits of sunbury pa. had both during his day. i believe he still had the 284 version when he died.
the argument over these things will never end. there are valid points on all sides.

my personal opinion of the big powder burners is they aint worth it.
that is till you sit behind one being shot, and watch thru good tripod mounted glasses as it streaks across these wide valleys.
to **** with what those old gun writers thought. at 75 i remember lots of them well.
im picking up my new 6.5 x300wsm on tuesday.

 

i would like to have the 6.5 allen magnum

 

338RUM necked down? Unless you're talking about a dedicated target gun, no thanks. No need or sense in that cartridge, when it comes to hunting.

 

would u prefer the express round based on the .300 dakota case? or the stw round on the 7mm stw case? or are u not much on the way over bore criteria?

 

6.5x61 Sharpe and hart is my choice

 

lom -

Howdy !

I designed a new 6.5mm wildcat for a shooter in New Zealand. He wanted to pass along an heirloom-grade rifle to his sons, that was chambered in a new 6.5mm wildcat that met his specs. He hunted NZ Tar in the mountains.
He did not want to use an exisitng 6.5mm wildcat or 6.5 factory case....... not even 6.5 X 47L or 6.5 Creedmoor.

With an eye towards making such wildcatting more affordable, I intended the chamber to be cut by running an existing chamber reamer in a bit "long"; and also by using existing ( not custom ) dies for case forming & loading.

My thought was to use a 6.5 X 47 Lapua reamer run-in a tad " long ", and use .308 WIn family cases for the parent brass. The resulting chamber would be in-essence.... a 6.5 Creedmoor length case, w/ a 6.5 X 47L neck length.

I formed trial cases using .260 Rem, 7-08 Win; and eventually .358Win. To get consistent neck wall thickness on the final formed cases, the use of .358Win brass necked-down & shoulder shoved gave me enough thckness margin to allow outside neck turn to final neck wall spec desired.

As it turned out, Uncle Sugar would not allow shipment of the brass from the US to NZ.

The wildcat was naned " 6.5 KIWI ". It held promise for both good accuracy and great barrel life.
For his NZ application, the shooter was leaning towards Hornady 123 & 129 "A"-Max.
6.5 KIWI cartridge oal was set-up using those 2 bullets, to-fit his intended use in a Mini-Mauser action.

I still have 100+ 6.5 Kiwi cases. These were more than enough to meet his projected shooting needs.

While case forming was effected using the existing dies / reduced-cost route'; case forming would have been made easier by the use of dedicated custom-made dies. No suprises, there. But again, for this small-batch wildcat,
I was able to case form w/o havign to $$$ custom dies.


With regards,
357Mag

 

You might consider the 6.5 Sherman SS , Short action and 3200 with 140 grain bullets. I was considering the Long action version.

 

I 'spose the Grendel is ballistically inferior to your expectations. The 260 rem has been done to death. Your logical option is to apply an Ackley shoulder to the 260 and give it a go!

Jimmy

 

GOOD GOD whats next ?.....50 BMG necked to 6.5 ?????

 

By 'long chambering' you increase the base diameter of the chamber but not the case. It'll have a big ripple just above the rim.

By the same token, you can chamber a little short and have a chamber that fits the case very tight...in fact, FL dies have to be shortened to form cases. I have two wildcats that use short chambering. They're smaller than SAAMI by a good bit. That means nothing else will chamber in them.

 

why not go in a completely different direction?

Get a marlin guide gun and use the 45-70 case necked down to 6.5mm. With that big fat case filled with slow burning powder, you could get some really interesting results our of a 22-24" barrel in that strong lever gun.

You may end up with 6.5x284 norma ballistics from a lever gun. Twist the barrel right and you could throw heavy bullets in the woods and speedsters for the fields

 

Me & a friend built a 6.5xWSM last year. They have turned out to be great cartridges. I took an elk last year & one this year using the Barnes 120gr TSX. Both elk were one shot kills with complete penetration. Velocity out of the 24" Bbl on my rifle is 3383FPS. Very flay shooting. Also note that my wife's 6.5x308 wildcat ( 260Rem now ) has also taken a fair amount of elk with the same bullet at 3000 FPS. I am in the process of building a 6.5-06. The 6.5-06 & the 6.5x284 share similar ballistics but 30-06 brass is much more available & at a lower price. The 6.5-06 with the 120gr bullet is easily capable of 3200+ FPS out of a 24" Bbl. If you can pick up a used rifle of your choice in 270,30-06,280, etc you have a perfect platform to build a 6.5-06. Hope this has been helpful.

 

Ramblings on short action mags

I've been contemplating a 6.5 wildcat for sometime as well, the only thing that's stopped me is that about the time I go through all the crap and spend the big bucks on getting it done one of the manufacturers will bring one out, that is a short fat magnum 6.5.
To me the logical choice would be a 6.5 saum for the following reasons.
Short fat cased cartridges are more accurate than long slender ones.
Short fat cased cartridges produce more velocity for any given load as compared to the same load when it' spread out in a longer powder column, that is to say that for instance 60 gr. of powder produces more velocity in a short fat cartridge as compared to a long slender cartridge.
I don't know this for certain but I suspect that the larger base of the short magnums will tolerate more pressure because it's spread out over a bigger area than a the 30-06 size bolt face.
No belt, the beltless cases feed better.
Short action, I'm a short action guy, I can work one on my shoulder, can't do it with a long action, if your 6' 4" this doesn't apply to you.
The slightly shorter case of the saum as compared to the wsm is an advantage when considering long 6.5 bullets going through the magazine of a short action rifle.
Comparing the recoil of a 7saum and a 7mm rem mag is noticeable, to me the full length magnum kicks harder even though the velocities are very close with like bullets.
I like the 270wsm but I like the 6.5's more.

There's my case for a 6.5 saum project.

 

you should look up the 6.5 Sherman SS , Rich Sherman has two versions one on a long action and one on short action. Im in the process of putting a long action together.

 

That's good one.

 

Broom +1.

My go to rifle is a 260 R. I found the 264 win mag disappointing.

to get what you say, the 6.5-06 AI is probably the best bet. You just will not beat the 260 significantly in a short action.

 

Ask Craig Boddington about his beloved left handed .264 Win Mag in Africa. He wrote how he wounded every big game animal he shot at and floored only the small springbok. The .264 Win Mag was a failure in Africa on big game when it was originally introduced and it proved itself to still live up to that reputation.

However, the main problem is not the 6.5mm diameter bullet or the necked down .458 Win Mag case - it is using a bullet not heavy enough for the mass of skin, sinew, bone and flesh it needs to penetrate without breaking up due to too high impact velocity. He used 130gr bullets on zebra and gemsbok and they all failed and the PH spent hours to get close enough again for more shooting. The same game are regularly cleanly killed with the 6.5x55 and 6.5x57/58 - but with the noticeable difference that no local hunter will ever use a bullet lighter than 154gr.

Boddington's conclusion was that the .264WM was not really meant for Africa, which is a totally wrong assumption; he should have confessed that he came out here to experiment on live animals and that he had made the very wrong decisions on bullet weight - knowledge which is freely available. His conclusion should have been that 130gr bullets are way too light and even lighter than 160gr cup and core bullets are not meant for Africa big game unless you can put your 140-154gr bullet where the PH advises you to...

Although elk die considerably easier than Africa big game from a lung shot I would still use the heaviest premium bullet any 6.5mm chambering allows, no matter the case size. The .260 Rem with 140gr is a nice medium game shooter for me but for game bigger than mule deer I need a Barnes or Peregrine bullet to tunnel through to the heart and beyond.

The moment that bullet feels the burning heat of the supersonic airflow of the free atmosphere over its shank outside the bore, whatever the shape of the case where the propelling gas pressure had escaped from is long forgotten, and is also totally immaterial - whether it is a commercial or a subtly changed or a ghastly modified wildcat case.