[UnCruel]

Sorry, but I have to rant.

I have been looking at the 6.8mm SPC with avid interest for years. In all that time, people have talked about chambering a variety of rifles in 6.8, but clearly talk is cheap. Even today, it can only be found for the AR platform, a bolt action, and the ranch rifle. None of those are ideal choices, in my opinion. Much was made of chambering the XM8 in 6.8, and that went nowhere. The FS-2000 would be awesome in 6.8, but again, no interest.

Finally, I thought, Bushmaster is committed to bringing the ACR out in 6.8mm SPC. It is "multicaliber". How many calibers is that, exactly? One. It has been out for months, yet it is only available in boring, vanilla, underpowered 5.56x45mm. Barrel change kits are still not available. And for this, they doubled the price. Another let down, bordering on a broken promise.

I get that 5.56 is a cash cow. I get that it is fun and cheap to plink with. I understand that there are slim hopes of military contracts to any manufacturer who produces weapons in the US military's beloved cartridge. But why are manufacturers so reluctant to broaden their market by offering a product line that includes more than one caliber? Why are those of us who want a serious defensive rifle stuck with only empty promises?

 

[lumberjak]

I have no interest in the 6.8 SPC but I would feel well armed with an AR platform rifle in that caliber. Why do you not think the AR is a good defensive rifle?
Or am I missing your point? I know the FS is a bpup, do you want something short and handy?
I’m not big on defensive rifles for around the house but I do keep a SKS loaded if I feel the need……10 rounds then stabby stabby with that razo sharp bayonet.

 

[broom_jm]

Speaking only as a sportsman, with no military experience, whatsoever: The 6.8SPC just doesn't bring enough to the table. It's only redeeming qualities are that it's short enough to be chambered in an AR-15 type gun and it is more powerful than the rather anemic 5.56x45. If you were interested in a hunting rifle and could choose between the 6.8SPC and 270 (whatever), there is little doubt which option you would go with.

If I really wanted an AR I would be very interested in either the 6.5 Grendel or the 6.8SPC. Both are better options than the varmint cartridge our military is currently hamstrung with. My son was looking at the R15 and the newer 30 Remington cartridge is pretty interesting. Too bad it has that strange bolt configuration with its odd-sized head. I imagine someday I will own one of these types of guns and when I do, I know I won't get it in the .223 round.

 

[Combat Diver]

Go over to either AR15.com or M4Carbine.net if you want some good opions on a semi/auto 6.8. Don't forget you have direct gas or piston operated in the AR. I like the 6.8 since Steve Holland (friend of mine) first had a CZ527 barreled for the cartridge back in 2002. Ruger makes the Compact Hawkeye chambered for it and it would make an excellent small statuer child/adult rifle. Rem did chamber a few model 7s/700s for it. T/C also chambers in the Contender/G2/Encore in either pistol or carbine barrels which I'm toying with.

Lets look at some Remington ballistics
6.8 SPC 115 gr Core-Lokt BC .295
MV 2650 ME 1759
100- 2332 E 1389
200-2058 E 1082

.257 Roberts 117gr Core-Lokt BC .240
MV 2650 ME 1824
100-2291 E 1363
200-1961 E 999

Notice how Remington has down loaded the orginal specs for the ammo. Silver State loads to this velocity.

CD

 

[UnCruel]

I will settle for a 6.8mm SPC in an AR-15 platform if I have to. The drawbacks to the AR platform may be small, but they concern me. Mainly, I am talking about the direct gas operation and the flawed location of the charge handle, but also the limitations that the recoil buffer places on the collapsiblity of the stock. A piston operated upper is what I would settle for.

Like a lot of people, I live indoors, and if I have to use a rifle for self defense, there is a good chance it will be there. Very short overall length makes the most sense there. This means a bullpup or a fully collapsing stock. On the other hand, I've been told that it is difficult to get a good trigger in a bullpup, due to the distance of all the linkage.

I have no interest in hunting with a 6.8mm SPC.

There are several rifles out there which are largely based on the AR-15 design but which solve the aforementioned problems. However, they are all available in 5.56x45mm only. That seems like such inside-the-box thinking on the part of rifle makers.

 

[shane256]

If the 6.5 Grendel became popular, I'd use it to hunt with. 120gr and even 140gr bullets in 6.5mm are very fine whitetail medicine. Good BC and good SD with good MV... it'd be almost as potent as the 6.5x55SE and we all know that one is a fine round. I'm pretty much neutral on the 6.8 SPC, though.

Your comparison of the 6.8 SPC and .257 Bob are a little off in that the bob is using a round nose bullet and not a spitzer and/or boattail like the 115gr 6.8 is.

 

[mattsbox99]

I like the 6.8 SPC.

 

[UnCruel]

Bushmaster has had the ACR out for a year, yet their so-called "multi-caliber" rifle is still only available in one caliber. As far as I can tell, conversion kits still aren't available, either. I can understand product delays, but this is shameful. I am not going to buy an ACR until it is available in 6.8mm SPC, which appears to mean that I am not going to buy an ACR ever.

 

[jwp475]

I like the 6.8 SPC.

SO do I. I have one in a RRA's upper on a Colt lower and I am very pleased with it, if fact I am going to do all of my deer hunting with it next season

 

[broom_jm]

I know I'm pointing this out 9 months after the fact, but the numbers posted above on the 6.8SPC and 257 Roberts are not exactly "truth in advertising". The Roberts is shown at 2650, which is at least 150fps less than it is capable of with that bullet (to say nothing of +P loadings). Also, the sectional density of the 117 grain .257" bullet is much greater than the same weight .277" bullet. Add to this that excellent big game bullets are available at the heavy end for 25 caliber, and not at the light end for 27 caliber, and you've got a definite apples n' oranges situation going on.

Maybe CD meant to compare the 6.8 and 250 Savage? Those are a lot closer in terms of stopping power, but the advantage is still clearly with the faster, heavy-for-caliber bullets used in the 250/3000.

With all of that being said, I would definitely like to have an Encore carbine in 6.8SPC. It's an efficient little cartridge and would be "enough" for coyotes and deer, at reasonable ranges. Mostly, it would just be fun to shoot and if the military ever decides to use it in large numbers, components for it will become easy to find.

I think it makes a lousy home defense cartridge, however, due to the amount of over-penetration you're likely to get. I'll stick with a 12 gauge or handgun for close quarters and keep praying I'm never in that kind of situation.

 

[RECON25]

The ACR had a recall and has had problems. I guess its a cool weapon for forum ninjas but the 5.56 does bring a lot of kinetic energy for a defense round and I have yet to meet a person with a .223 proof face.

 

[jwp475]

I Add to this that excellent big game bullets are available at the heavy end for 25 caliber, and not at the light end for 27 caliber, and you've got a definite apples n' oranges situation going on.


I think it makes a lousy home defense cartridge, however, due to the amount of over-penetration you're likely to get. I'll stick with a 12 gauge or handgun for close quarters and keep praying I'm never in that kind of situation.

Let's see the Rem Core-loc at 115 grain, the 110 Sierra Game King, the 110 grain and 85 grain TSX. Seems there are plenty of good 6.8 hunting bullets available

Why would the 6.8 not be a good home defense round? IMHO it is a great home defense round, if you prefer a shotgun that is fine but is a personal choice and inno way degrades the 6.8

 

[broom_jm]

Let's see the Rem Core-loc at 115 grain, the 110 Sierra Game King, the 110 grain and 85 grain TSX. Seems there are plenty of good 6.8 hunting bullets available

Why would the 6.8 not be a good home defense round? IMHO it is a great home defense round, if you prefer a shotgun that is fine but is a personal choice and inno way degrades the 6.8

While all of those bullets can be used for big game in 27 caliber, none have the sectional density numbers that most hunters consider optimal for the job. None of them are going to be as reliable as the 115 or 120 grain Partition, for example. Traditional big game bullets in .277" weigh 130 grains or more. The 6.8SPC does not have the case capacity to drive such bullets at the velocity for which they were designed, thus it is best with lighter bullets.

I'd like to point out that I DID say it's enough gun for deer hunting and I'm just pointing out that it is not as powerful as the 257 Roberts. As long as we're making comparisons, the 6.8SPC drives a 110gr bullet at 2650fps while the 243 Winchester (long considered a minimum for deer by hunters and game agencies) drives a 105 grain bullet at 2900fps. All of this to illustrate that the 6.8 is definitely on the marginal end for big game hunting, but in all fairness, it wasn't designed for such.

I clearly stated why I think the 6.8 is poor choice for home defense (over-penetration). I have four children and, God forbid, if I ever have to discharge a weapon in self-defense, I don't want a round that is going to penetrate through the bad guy and keep right on going. If that kind of performance suits your needs for home defense, I certainly won't question it.

 

[jwp475]

While all of those bullets can be used for big game in 27 caliber, none have the sectional density numbers that most hunters consider optimal for the job. None of them are going to be as reliable as the 115 or 120 grain Partition, for example. Traditional big game bullets in .277" weigh 130 grains or more. The 6.8SPC does not have the case capacity to drive such bullets at the velocity for which they were designed, thus it is best with lighter bullets.

I'd like to point out that I DID say it's enough gun for deer hunting and I'm just pointing out that it is not as powerful as the 257 Roberts. As long as we're making comparisons, the 6.8SPC drives a 110gr bullet at 2650fps while the 243 Winchester (long considered a minimum for deer by hunters and game agencies) drives a 105 grain bullet at 2900fps. All of this to illustrate that the 6.8 is definitely on the marginal end for big game hunting, but in all fairness, it wasn't designed for such.

I clearly stated why I think the 6.8 is poor choice for home defense (over-penetration). I have four children and, God forbid, if I ever have to discharge a weapon in self-defense, I don't want a round that is going to penetrate through the bad guy and keep right on going. If that kind of performance suits your needs for home defense, I certainly won't question it.

There are other factors that have more bearing on penetration than than SD. The 243 is not considered the minimum by all game agency's maybe some but certainly not all. A lot of game agency's allow 22 center fire and a lot of people use the 223 for Deer. I can post links if you prefer. How fast a 243 pushes a 100 grain bullet does not detract from the fact that the 6.8 is more than enough for deer and other game. Bullet construction has the most bearing on penetration and the Horndy V-Max in 6.8 is not a deep penetrating bullet, in-fact it is quite fragile and a shallow penetrator.

On AR a Canadian used the 6.8 to take a Grizzly and a Musk Ox with the 115 grain Core-Loc with only 1 shot required for each.


http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7621043/m/4191033741

Just came back from Muskox hunting,and got a nice bull using a 6.8 SPC with 115gr remington core lock. One bullet thru the heart is all that was required, as I was only 10 yards away. Did not recover the bullet as it exited. The bull lasted only a few seconds. I am very impressed with the ruger mini 14 in 6.8 SPC and what it can do. It took one bullet to kill a 8 foot grizzly,and now one shot on a bull Musk Ox.

I would like to put pictures here, but I do not know how to post them.We got 2 musk Ox with the 6.8 SPC, 1 bull and 1 female. Temp was about -35 with out the windchill.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/1931043051?r=1931043051#1931043051

my son and I have taken musk -ox with the 6.8 using 115gr at 75 yards.
My son has also taken a grizzly bear with the 6.8 and still with 115gr bullet so a deer would not be a problem.
That is as long as the first shot is well placed.
Shot placement is more important that what caliber is used
joe
joe

A thread on using a 223 center fire on deer; http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3411043/m/7791012541/p/1

I have a 6.8 and the more that I shoot it the better I like it

 

[Kahuner]

UnCruel;

I am not well versed on AR "anything" however; the link below will take you to the website for Dtech who offers a 6.8 SPC on an AR15 platform.

I don't know if he (Mike, the Owner) has resolved all of the issues that concern you, you'd have to speak w/ him. I do know he has an excellent reputation.

You'll have to read his contact page as he only dedicates time to speak on the phone on certain times during the week.

Website here: http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/new_altcal.htm

Good luck;
Kahuner

 

[RECON25]

If you can't kill a deer with a 6.8 its due to poor marksmanship skills

 

[broom_jm]

Agreed: Proper bullet placement is key to any cartridge being effective on big game, particularly those that are marginal, on paper. Getting to within 10 yards probably makes shot placement quite a bit easier and cartridge choice largely academic. A spear has a lousy ballistic coefficient, poor sectional density and its velocity/energy numbers are terrible...but it will still kill big game at 10 yards. Not sure what that proves, if anything.

For the record: I like the 6.8SPC but I am not oblivious to its limitations and would not press it into duty when better options are readily available.

 

[243dave]

The 6.8 is a easy 300yd deer rifle. Heck, my 45 colt rifle(loaded heavy) is a 150yd gun and it has all the needed range for where I hunt. For a fellow like me a 300yd gun is more than I'll ever need(and probably 95% of all hunters). For the eastern hunters its more than enough for deer, black bear and hogs, perhaps if I lived where elk,moose and big bear roam or beanfields were the norm I'd consider the 6.8 to have limitations but for me(and most) nothing more is needed.
Dave

 

[RECON25]

your correct, i live in AL so most shots average around 75- 85yds unless your hunting a green field or fire break but for the most part the woods and swamps are so thick here even in the winter so a 6.8 is ideal for the range in AL. I hunt with a 7.62x39 AR sometimes wich works well and more deer in this state have been killed with a 30-30 than any other caliber. If i were out west in open range i would not use a 6.8 or anything close to it. my son shot his first deer last season with my .223 AR, shot her in the neck at around 70yds and she folded over and never ran. its a great system for him to hunt with and the 6 pos stock makes it easy for him to hold the rifle. as far as the charging handle goes it doesnt bother me but may effect some shooters. the gas tube/ DI works fine for me and my son and let me tell you, if you ever doubt the performance of an AR my 10 yr old son has made a believer out of me. that thing has been dropped,drug,thrown around,covered in dirt,mud,dropped in a creek and still fires. we keep it clean after a hunt and lube it but its never failed.

 

[Combat Diver]

Maybe CD meant to compare the 6.8 and 250 Savage? Those are a lot closer in terms of stopping power, but the advantage is still clearly with the faster, heavy-for-caliber bullets used in the 250/3000.

Nope, numbers are right off Remingtons charts. Yes, the .257 can be pushed faster but so can the 6.8 SPC. Look at the velocities on the target I posted. Those were orginal design perameters that 5th SFGA used. Both rounds will kill if you put a proper bullet in the kill zone of any animal. Both have sufficient power to do the job. Just depends on which type of bullet launcher you prefer.

CD