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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
These days it seems like there's a new cartridge every month and most are just reinventing the wheel, as someone who uses an AR-15 for coyotes here in the west this new cartridge loaded with a 87gr. bullet would have substationally less wind drift and more energy for long shots than a 60gr. from a .223.
A 60gr. .224 Hornady V-max has a BC of .264 and the 87gr. 6mm v-max is a whopping .400, I would assume the 87gr. could be launched at least as fast as a 60gr. bullet.
Might be worthwhile to pick up a complete upper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Dl0gwNxCY
 

The Hog Whisperer (Administrator)
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Looks to be right at .250 Savage performance, which isn't a bad place to be ;) :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The last couple of weeks the wind has been relentless here, 80mph gusts today. Last weekend a friend and I shot 4 coyotes in about 10 minutes, 2 each but I missed 2 later on at about 250 in the wind. Who knows weather I would have got them with a better wind cartridge but it can be a real issue here especially if you don't get a broadside shot.
Complete uppers are about 750. and I don't believe that includes a magazine, not an inexpensive upper.

Wondering what the mv is from the 16" versions.
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...lters_1=New&avs|Manufacturer_1=AERO+PRECISION
 

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Ultimate Reloader on YouTube had a video talking about this a few days ago. It sounds like he is going to be building and testing an AR platform and a bolt gun in 6mm ARC. I don't think I really have much of a use for it myself, but I'm still really interested to see what it has to offer, I never know when I might have a use for it in the future.
 

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So, is it a 6x47 or a 6mm International? Anybody got a drawing?

I've built a couple Internationals and really like them for light varmint bullets. 6mm 22-250 or .243-250 but with a longer neck. They made a ripple it he BR world long before the PPC came along.
 

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Drawing

Apparently the 220 russian is the parent case. I don't know much about that family of cartridges. Sounds like another shorter round to allow long pointy bullets in an AR platform, but dosn't really offer a lot more than what a minor change in throat would on cartridges that already exist.

It helps keep the industry going and gives us something to talk about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You are correct that it's close but I read somewhere it's about .007 smaller on the rim.
6.8 magazines work I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
There'alot better cartridges for bolt guns without the case size restrictions imposed by magazine dimentions but for a standard AR-15 gun it's a real step up in performance.

 

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There'alot better cartridges for bolt guns without the case size restrictions imposed by magazine dimentions but for a standard AR-15 gun it's a real step up in performance.

You are right, I left out the part where the better performing cartridges will not fit into an AR. It looks like a good round for that platform. I like AR's and have a couple of them, but don't really use them much. I prefer my bolt guns and levers. I hate chasing brass.

Ultimately it will end up in bolt guns and someone will tout it's amazing abilities in said bolt gun, which will cause me to pull out the standard :rolleyes:
 

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So it's a 6PPC with another name (and hype). A dozen bolt gun calibers do that same thing but don't have a new name so are obviously old-fashioned and now useless. :)

I call it the, 'If it ain't Creedmoor it must be less' marketing strategy. ;) "New and Improved" should be perfect by now!
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Actually the case dimensions are all different, less body taper, steeper standard American shoulder and shorter neck, it probably holds a couple more grains of powder.
This is just a guess but the thin head and web of the ppc cartridge wouldn't be semi-auto high pressure friendly so it's probably more like a remington 6mm benchrest cartridge.
Hornady is pretty good at designing new cartridges and this one seems pretty well thought out.
 

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KB, I keep forgetting about AR's :eek: not on purpose mind you, it's just that I don't miss what I don't have :eek:

The 6mm PPC is VERY close to the ARC, the differences are microscopic. But that's been proven already I guess.

Wondering if Pindell and Palmisano don't still have some "rights" to the PPC (?) So Hornady made their own?

RJ
 
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The Shadow (Moderator)
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If you go to Hornady's YouTube channel, Jayden Quinlan(head ballistician) gives the answer. It is fundamentally based on the PPC case, then tweeked and changed in most every dimension. Just like the Blackout is just enough different than the whisper;):D

Actually just discovered this cartridge last evening. Was thinking maybe a good first rifle cartridge for the kids, but sis is pushing 6' already....
That one doesn't fear recoil.;)
 

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If you saw that cartridge standing in the crowd at the cartridge reunion, you'd call it PPC. Same parent, same 'height' and within a grain or two of same capacity. THAT is a patent/trade-mark dodge if I ever saw one. By the drawings, a PPC will fire (safely enough) in an ARC but not visa-versa. A 6PPC will easily fireform to 6mm ARC with no case losses and the same headspace.
Headspace on both are at junctions of the shoulder and not a datum between the two. So, both cartridges have dual headspace datums and one is the same (within .002). PPC brass will be used more than ARC, in my opinion.

Edit--PPC brass will only last a few reloadings as drawn. The ARC's neck is a whopping .012 larger than the PPC. .274 vs .262. Just guessing that is a legal move. The larger dimension is the same as .243 Win and 6mm Rem. instead of BR tight.
 

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If course it is, compare the 300 Whisper to the 300 BO; same game.
 

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I'm curious, is a cartridge design considered a patent?

If so is there a time limitation?
 

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No, the name is trademarked and cartridge dimensions are needed to name one. The PPC seems to a pissin match between BR shooters. There was a Tom Cat and a Stray Cat and a Fast Cat and the originator of the first one was aggravated it was copied and 'improved'. The PPC designers decided to trade mark and get credit for the idea. (using the 220 Russian case as a 'bridge' between .222 and .308 size case heads.

Capacity = performance and Tolerances = Accuracy. As long as the body has enough taper to extract and the shoulder has enough angle to headspace, the rest in nothing but details without differences.

Walker wanted Remington to spend money on new tooling for the .25 Remington for a big brother to the 6x47, but Remington decided on the 6mm Rem Int and 6mm BR instead.
The 40X was his baby and he got a LOT of what he wanted, including the great .222Rem by winning matches, but there's never been enough target shooters to keep up interest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
If you saw that cartridge standing in the crowd at the cartridge reunion, you'd call it PPC. Same parent, same 'height' and within a grain or two of same capacity. THAT is a patent/trade-mark dodge if I ever saw one. By the drawings, a PPC will fire (safely enough) in an ARC but not visa-versa. A 6PPC will easily fireform to 6mm ARC with no case losses and the same headspace.
Headspace on both are at junctions of the shoulder and not a datum between the two. So, both cartridges have dual headspace datums and one is the same (within .002). PPC brass will be used more than ARC, in my opinion.

Edit--PPC brass will only last a few reloadings as drawn. The ARC's neck is a whopping .012 larger than the PPC. .274 vs .262. Just guessing that is a legal move. The larger dimension is the same as .243 Win and 6mm Rem. instead of BR tight.
My guess would be that the thin neck on a ppc would be much more susceptable to damage being fed from a magazine up the ramp by a semi-auto and also being damaged on ejection.
Midway is listing ammunition at 24.99 a box and .72 apiece for brass which isn't out of line with todays prices. When other companies start making ammunition they'll be cheaper ammunition available.
 

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That means there will be BR shooters forming PPC from the cheaper brass. That could be an interesting comparison. ;)

No doubt a .262 BR neck is too fragile to be fed from an AR. That means ARC brass can be neck turned and formed to PPC with one stroke of the press.

I'd love to see a BR rifle compare nothing but brass. I never got a chance to do with mine, but I have three light varminters that shows a hint of a preference between military and commercial, anyway. It takes twenty shot groups to mean anything I haven't done that.
 
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