[280mountain]

Hey all I'm new,

I inherited a remington mountain rifle in .280, produced sometime in the 80's, about 8 years ago.Year one was a roller coaster with this gun. I took the biggest deer I have ever killed with it, and realized that it was a lemon about 3 weeks after that. The shot I took with it was at about 175 yards, and probably 8 inches back from where i would ever hold on a deer. It was my grandfathers, i figured it was shot in, i made a mistake. Turns out it was scoped and bore sighted and set in his display for 25 years. I tried to shoot this rifle in and found out that the buck i dropped with it was a complete fluke. 10-12 inches MOA at 100 yards. The smith my family uses for maintenance and repair work found a 'bulge' in the barrel about 14 inches from the receiver.

Anyways, I'm rebuilding the gun (because it needs a new barrel anyways, right?) and need some help. A new barrel is obvious, but I'm wondering what kind of MOA i can achieve with some work done. How are people building accurate 700's? is it the barrel, barrel bedding, receiver, receiver bedding? my trigger is verrrrrry nice, its a stock trigger from that time - but modified to break at 3.5 lbs.. my grandfather did the trigger work to all of his m700's before stashing them in the 'rifle room', every m700 that made it to one of my cousins or uncles breaks just the same.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've been reading up on rifle MOA - and I have been finding the answer to my questions here most frequently.

 

[RifleFan]

I'm certainly no expert but I do have two comments. First, I would never fire a rifle in the field that I have not shot at the range. Never. Second, I would make sure the smith checked out the rest of the rifle to make sure there is no damage.

 

[.300WinMag]

I had the same rifle but in 270.




What I would do with yours;

Shilen Bbl, 24" (even better is a Krieger if you are very serious about accuracy, have them install it)

Shilen or Timney trigger set light

Stock reworked, make sure the fore end does not touch the barrel at all when the front is rested in something with all the rifles weight plus some.

That should be enough. You very likely do not need receiver work.

Going this route you can pick any cartridge with a standard rim.

 

[MikeG]

Quality rebarrel job should easily yield a 1-2 MOA shooter, some will guarantee less. Killed my first two deer with a .280 so have a soft spot for the cartridge. Actually, your easiest option may be to have Remington put a new barrel on it. Have you contacted them? It may be quite reasonable, and out of the box Rem 700s usually shoot pretty good.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[broom_jm]

I will also throw in that a great many benchrest rifles start with a Remington 700 action. If you put a quality barrel on that gun, you may find you have a SUB-MOA shooter. With many 700's the limitation is the shooter, not the gun.

I would echo Riflefan's comment about having the action checked (and trued?) since the bulged barrel indicates there was clearly an over-pressure situation at some point in that gun's past. It may not be necessary, but when it comes to firearms, it is best to err on the side of caution, right?

 

[280mountain]

I doubt that there was ever an overpressure situation involved with this gun. It might have had a full box of factory loads through it since it was produced. My smith believes that it is without a doubt a factory defect.

Which is besides the point anyways. As this defective barrel presents me with an excuse to spend buku bucks on this gun, I am hoping that someone who has reworked a 700 with good results will share their build on this thread. I'm thinking about glassbedding the action and maybe 2-3 inches of whatever new barrel I decide to get. Does this sound like a superstar? How important is recrowning, does an almost new gun need this work also?

 

[MikeG]

Glass bedding the action is pretty well a standard operation that any gunsmith should be able to handle. I think it is perhaps less of an accuracy issue than getting consistent point of impact through all weather / temperature ranges - especially if the barrel is free-floated. I can't say that glass-bedding ever turned any of my guns from a poor performer to a superstar, but I can say that I don't have the zero wander from season to season.

Model 700 gunsmithing is probably the backbone of the industry. You can spend as much or little as you want, from just screwing in a factory take-off barrel, to full bench rest truing and custom barrel. If you look around there are probably lots of factory barrels that have been taken off new guns. Used to see them at gun shows for $40-$50, no idea what the current rate is. A gunsmith with a barrel and gages can screw one in, maybe 15 minutes, and you're on your way. That's the bottom end and it goes up from there.....

 

[mattsbox99]

Mike is right, a factory take off barrel should be under $100 and the smith's time is generally $40-$50 per hour. I'd go that route and get what you wanted.

You can spend a lot of money on custom barrels and all kinds of work, but as noted above, the limitation is your skill, the most accurate and dependable rifles in the world are Remington 700s.

Your gunsmith should be able to let you know what the rifle might need. The guys at Montana Rifle Co. can also do anything you want, as they are Rem 700 pros.

 

[m141a]

look here:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/postlist/Board/14/page/1

These guys are always selling barrels and such. Alot of times, as really great deals.

Good luck with your gun, and definitely get out and practice before your hunt.

welcome to the forum.

 

[broom_jm]

I doubt that there was ever an overpressure situation involved with this gun. It might have had a full box of factory loads through it since it was produced. My smith believes that it is without a doubt a factory defect.

Which is besides the point anyways. As this defective barrel presents me with an excuse to spend buku bucks on this gun, I am hoping that someone who has reworked a 700 with good results will share their build on this thread. I'm thinking about glassbedding the action and maybe 2-3 inches of whatever new barrel I decide to get. Does this sound like a superstar? How important is recrowning, does an almost new gun need this work also?

Perhaps I am misunderstanding what your gunsmith meant by a 'bulge' in the barrel. If he is referring to a flaw in the barrel, from the factory, then I stand corrected. If it is a visible bulge in the exterior of the barrel that resulted from a round being fired, then that was clearly an over-pressure event.

Regardless, the solution to the problem is the same and, if your 'smith is any good, you'll probably wind up with a very good shooter. By the way, don't get too hung up on the whole "MOA" thing. The 280 Remington is a hunting cartridge and I promise you the game won't complain if you can "only" shoot 1.5" groups, at 100 yards.

 

[spitfire_er]

+1 on everything said here. A buldge in the barrel in a very lightly used gun is uncommon, unless for some reason they completely missed it at the factory. I would say if everything else is good, (tight bases, rings, stock screws, trigger, and you have a good scope) and it is still shooting 10-12" groups @ 100 it is definately a barrel problem.

Like said before a factory barrel should get you back to where you want to be in the 1-2" max group range. If it's shooting more than that it might not be the gun! Look at the ammo, scope, or shooting style. If you feel like putting on a nice barrel like a Hart, or a Krieger, you'll spend $300 on the barrel, and another $2-300 getting it put on your rifle. Then with a good bedding job, and floating the barrel, I would put money on the fact that it will shot 1" or less groups. Bedding usually consists of bedding the action, and some people, such as myself, choose to bed the first inch or so of the barrel then float the rest. Many guys Float the entire barrel, but I usually get 1/4" to 1/2" groups out of my custom rifles with my method on the bench, and thats good enough for my hunting needs.

Whatever you do keep up updated and let us know what you end up doing. Pictures are always cool too!

 

[Savage99]

280mountain,

I suggest that you get another model rifle. I don't prefer the Rem. 700 design for hunting.

The Rem. design lacks a proper safety, trigger, extractor, ejector, bolt assembly and overall it lacks what a mechanic or tool maker would consider to be good machinery that one could admire.

The 700's safety fails to secure the firing pin and only is a trigger safety.

Look at the designs of the M70's, Kimber 84's and 8400's and Rugers amoung others.

Did you know that the 700's bolt has its locking lugs section just brazed onto the bolt body? Did you know that the 700's bolt handle is just brazed on and they do break off?

 

[spitfire_er]

The 700 is not one of my favorites ether, but it has been used for a very long time successfully, and in this case, I don't think he's going to get rid of a family heirloom.

 

[broom_jm]

280mountain,

I suggest that you get another model rifle. I don't prefer the Rem. 700 design for hunting.

The Rem. design lacks a proper safety, trigger, extractor, ejector, bolt assembly and overall it lacks what a mechanic or tool maker would consider to be good machinery that one could admire.

The 700's safety fails to secure the firing pin and only is a trigger safety.

Look at the designs of the M70's, Kimber 84's and 8400's and Rugers amoung others.

Did you know that the 700's bolt has its locking lugs section just brazed onto the bolt body? Did you know that the 700's bolt handle is just brazed on and they do break off?

Good points, all. However, it's still one of the most successful bolt-action designs in history and unquestionably a favorite of benchrest shooters.

The Model 700 is a perfectly safe and accurate rifle and there isn't a reason in the world to sell it. Like any other gun, you just need to know your weapon and how to use it safely.

 

[MikeG]

Bulge in the bore probably came from an obstruction. It is an interesting fact that the radial deformation associated with bulging the bore does not necessarily translate back to more pressure on the action. Not sure I understand all the mechanics but apparently the shock waves are too brief and pointed in the wrong direction?

It'll be news to millions of people that model 700s are poor hunting rifles, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I can't find that my 700 is any less useful than my model 70, Ruger 77s, Savage 110 or 99, mausers, and whatever else is in the safe. Don't sweat the brazed on lugs and bolt handle of the 700. The lugs are in one piece and can't fail without shearing steel. I've never heard of them coming loose, anyway. While the bolt handles have been known to come off once in a great while, if you don't do something that causes you to have to pound the bolt open, it's generally not an issue. Think it was more common with the 788s, anyway.

 

[doubs43]

When the US military services decide that their 700-based sniper rifles are just so much junk and send them to the CMP for disposition, I'll be first in line to add one of them to my other model 700 rifles.

 

[.300WinMag]

In Gunsmith school we did A LOT of work to 700's. This said, I buy Kimber's now. Pay now of pay later your choice.

 

[zb338]

I have sold a bunch of Remington 700s to people over the years. When
I'm asked I always push towards the .270 because it is accurate and it
is good for the Eastern hunter. It's fine for deer and bear and is an
excellent woodchuck rifle. I don't remember anyone ever coming back
and complaining about the 700. In fact I gave one to my Grandson for
Christmas year before last and he shot a bear with his last season. Just
remember the Mountain Rifle is not a bench rest gun. It's a hunting gun
and your not going to get bench rest accuracy. The groups will open up
as the barrel heats up as well. It should still be a great hunting rifle for
you once you get it fixed.
Zeke

 

[Brian S]

I'd have to say Savage99 has issues with the most succesful and trusted design in actions, I'm sure todays Army and Marine snipers would prefer a M70 or Kimber. Also from his ID he loves Savages. I love Savages too, but have Rem700's and man it's awsome. When you lock that bolt down it feels like a locked-up safe. Can't say that about my Savages.
Since the actions going to be off the 280 I'd spend the $250 extra and have it all squared-up on a lathe. and bolt face squared. If your looking for 1 moa than no need too, but if you want .5 to .25 moa you must blueprint the action.

 

[lumberjak]

Guys, Winchester has been brazing bolts for 50 years….to try and argue that Remington is inferior because they braze bolts and not know that it’s a common industry practice….pointless indeed and enough of that.

To the OP, Remington’s are generally pretty good as they come from the factory but as with anything that’s mass produced, a little extra spit and polish can help. Jerk the barrel, true the action face, surface the recoil lug and lap the bolt lugs, these are easy to do low cost steps and it‘s better if everything screws down tight and square. For a dandy hunting rifle, the econo barrels such as A&B are fine. I’m leery of pulloffs, if that guy didn’t want it on his rifle, why would I want it on mine? Since the barrel is truly the key to an accurate rifle, you’ll need to decide how far you want to jump. Bedding is always good as is floating the barrel. I’d say the guy that chambers and sets up the barrel is the primary ingredient….a little work done right goes a lot farther than a lot of work done wrong. If MOA is your goal, a very minor build will give you that with factory ammo, actually just a new barrel probably would.
Action truing puts everything square. The barrel shoulder should tighten squarely up against the recoil lug (the Remington recoil lug is like a washer between nut and bolt) which tightens squarely against the action. You want the chamber reamed perfectly straight and dead center of the bore. You can lap the bolt lugs and face the bolt so that it is exactly perpendicular to the bore. A good thing about aftermarket barrels is the elimination of the one size fits all premise. You get to select what reamers are used and a twist can be selected for a specific bullet weight. Also weight, length and contour can be customized to your specs. There are a couple of other steps in action truing but they cross over into not enough return for time and expense. I will not bush a bolt, even doing the machine work myself, I’d buy a Stiller.
Bedding adds accuracy to the equation by removing any action shift under recoil. If the action moves when fired, so does bullet impact. Pillars, if installed correctly, allow the action to be firmly held to the stock without overly compressing the stock material.
Floating the barrel eliminates forend pressure that can push on the barrel and cause a shift in point of impact.
Good luck with Grandad’s rifle and don’t worry about the negative comments. I own every brand of rifle that has been mentioned in this thread and Remington is as good as any.