I posted a thread a while back bout an 8x57 improved to c if it could be identified. Has now identified as an 8x57 ackley. Was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to the velocity i can expect with 150, 175 and 195 grain pills as is mostly a short range rifle looks like the 195 will see the most use. Any one else had any experience with this cartridge?
8x57 Ackley Improved
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I've never heard of this cartridge, and I imagine it never attained much popularity, due to the common practice of converting 8mm rifles to 8mm/06. The ready availability of '06 brass probably made the 8x57 AI seem like a much less practical option.
With that being said, do you have any fired cases you could use to measure water capacity? Do you have dies for it? How was it determined that it's an 8mm AI? I would hazard a guess that backing off 5% from max loads for the 8x57 would be a safe place to work up from. Make that 10%.
With that being said, do you have any fired cases you could use to measure water capacity? Do you have dies for it? How was it determined that it's an 8mm AI? I would hazard a guess that backing off 5% from max loads for the 8x57 would be a safe place to work up from. Make that 10%.
the standard 8/57 is a dandy! you may pick up a little velocity over the std. cartridge but don't fool yourself into thinking that every last fps is what makes a cartridge... i assume you are talking about the 195gr hornady? good bullet. i have had very good results with the 185gr remington bulk bullets. they aren't as pretty in terms of polish compared to other bullets but 3 shots will touch at 100 yds from the military bbl on my yugo and i have complete confidence in them for taking deer...
i think that broom gave you some good advice on starting loads. there is no need to use start loads for the std. 8/57 but it could be dicey to use max loads.
i can see the merit of AIing the 8/57, particularly with heavier bullets in mind. let us know how things go!
i think that broom gave you some good advice on starting loads. there is no need to use start loads for the std. 8/57 but it could be dicey to use max loads.
i can see the merit of AIing the 8/57, particularly with heavier bullets in mind. let us know how things go!
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I've never seen or heard of an 8x57 AI, But have seen and shot an 8-06 AI.
It's one of my GSs favorites. He's rechamber many Mausers for it - Says its performance is right in between the 300 and 338 Win mags.
It's one of my GSs favorites. He's rechamber many Mausers for it - Says its performance is right in between the 300 and 338 Win mags.
Was identified by nick harvey sent him a fireformed case. rifle was allready modified for this when i got it or i wouldnt have chambered it to ackley. I now have dies. Im just curious as to anyone else having reloading for them before and any hints they may have.
One thing I neglected to mention earlier is that the 8x57AI and 8-06 might use very similar reloading data, which is why I asked about case capacity. If you could confirm that by weighing a fired and resized case (with the spent primer left IN the case) and then fill the case with distilled water, weigh it again, and subtract the first number from the second, we'll have our answer. If the end result is a similar case capacity (might still be a few grains less) you'll be able to refer to the 8-06 data, which is widely available.
I think it is pretty unlikely you will find many guys, if any, who have worked with this exact AI'd cartridge, but that is somewhat immaterial. Experienced reloaders can still help you out with really good starting points, if given the case capacity, as described above and (later) the resulting velocity from your gun. Uncle Nick, in particular, has been very helpful to me, in this regard.
As obscure as that round is, you're really going to want to know the internal capacity anyway, so weigh 10 cases, with and without water, and then let us know the average.
Jason
I think it is pretty unlikely you will find many guys, if any, who have worked with this exact AI'd cartridge, but that is somewhat immaterial. Experienced reloaders can still help you out with really good starting points, if given the case capacity, as described above and (later) the resulting velocity from your gun. Uncle Nick, in particular, has been very helpful to me, in this regard.
As obscure as that round is, you're really going to want to know the internal capacity anyway, so weigh 10 cases, with and without water, and then let us know the average.
Jason
I'm very surprised by that. My chart shows 62gr for the standard 8x57 and 70gr for the 8mm-06. If that is an average of 10 cases, I would be confused, personally, about what cartridge I was looking at. You may have to just use standard 8x57 load data and work up very carefully, because I'm not sure what you have, now.
Can you take careful measurements of the length from head to neck, and total case length? This is turning into more of a mystery.
if it were me i think that i'd load and treat it like an 8x57 but i'd go a couple grains heavier with the powder charges at the very least... i would imagine that performance will be very similar to the 8/06 which is to say very good!
william iorg has recently posted a couple very good posts in the general leverguns forum in a discussion about the 30/30AI. they are good reading for any gun crank!
william iorg has recently posted a couple very good posts in the general leverguns forum in a discussion about the 30/30AI. they are good reading for any gun crank!
One thing you "should" be able to do is fire 8x57 ammo in an improved chamber, and wind up with a properly formed case for the AI. You might try buying some commercial 8x57 ammo, checking all of the dimensions on the case first, (except capacity) and then firing it in your gun. If the end result is markedly different, you're certainly looking at something that isn't a standard 8x57, although it doesn't seem to be an AI chambering, based on the case capacity you mentioned.
Well, that definitively answers the question! I didn't know you had dies.
Maybe the small case capacity is because the newer brass is of heavier construction? Have you put together and shot any reloads, yet?
Feast or Famine
I think you'll find that right after WWII, it was the 8x06 that was the hot number, with no good sporting ammo available in the mil. mauser round. And what was, was probably berdan primed and corrosive. Somewhere in the fifties that all changed, so that with good boxer primed cases, the 8x57 AI jumped out ahead, as cheap mil. ammo could be had and shot, while good cases could be blown out and reloaded, giving more flexibility. The rub was that with the shorty 150 gr. bullets. I believe that the 8x06 takes up a good part of the excessive throat of the mil. mauser chamber. I'm happy with my 8x06, but also am working up a wildcatted 8x416 ruger, that apes the old 8x68S mag.. I hope the 66mm case length will take up more of that excessive throat. Mr. Layne Simpson claimed that a true sporting chamber in a Rem 700, equalled 3 extra inches of bbl. length in a mil. mauser, using the same loads, in his write up, I think, from back in 2004. Anyway, it was the year Rem. did a 8mm mauser in their 700 limited edition model. Of course there is a 8x06 AI, but I haven't had one of these made up. Good Luck, and anyways, these two are only a couple of powder grains apart. In the YUGO 48, the choice has already been made for you. In the mid sixties, both of these mods with nice metal work, Bishop Stocks, and Weaver K model scopes, were prized possesions, here in North Idaho. But those old boys didn't have the choices we do today. But they did feel that these converted mausers were a step above the Springfield 03-A3's available then. Just a better mechanical presentation, and the local Speer 170gr. bullets were always made to work at 50 KCUP, while the 30-06 was downloaded to 47.5 KCUP in WWII to work in the M1 Garand. And that little tid-bit came from a tool and die maker who worked at the Winchester Western ammo factory all during the war. He claimed that the really hot ammo that Western made was for Chiang Kai Scheck's export M98 mausers, fighting in China. That 7.92 x 57 ammo went out by the carload at 52.9 KCUP. And last but not least, niether the 8x06 or 8mm AI, can be picked up and loaded into a creaky 1888 commision rifle, or one of the j bores with the .318 bbls.. But an improperly marked 8x06 rifle can easily take a standard 8mm mauser cartridge, with unfavorable results, for the unwary shooter, which is the other nail in the coffin for the 8x06, paired against the 8mm x 57 AI.
I think you'll find that right after WWII, it was the 8x06 that was the hot number, with no good sporting ammo available in the mil. mauser round. And what was, was probably berdan primed and corrosive. Somewhere in the fifties that all changed, so that with good boxer primed cases, the 8x57 AI jumped out ahead, as cheap mil. ammo could be had and shot, while good cases could be blown out and reloaded, giving more flexibility. The rub was that with the shorty 150 gr. bullets. I believe that the 8x06 takes up a good part of the excessive throat of the mil. mauser chamber. I'm happy with my 8x06, but also am working up a wildcatted 8x416 ruger, that apes the old 8x68S mag.. I hope the 66mm case length will take up more of that excessive throat. Mr. Layne Simpson claimed that a true sporting chamber in a Rem 700, equalled 3 extra inches of bbl. length in a mil. mauser, using the same loads, in his write up, I think, from back in 2004. Anyway, it was the year Rem. did a 8mm mauser in their 700 limited edition model. Of course there is a 8x06 AI, but I haven't had one of these made up. Good Luck, and anyways, these two are only a couple of powder grains apart. In the YUGO 48, the choice has already been made for you. In the mid sixties, both of these mods with nice metal work, Bishop Stocks, and Weaver K model scopes, were prized possesions, here in North Idaho. But those old boys didn't have the choices we do today. But they did feel that these converted mausers were a step above the Springfield 03-A3's available then. Just a better mechanical presentation, and the local Speer 170gr. bullets were always made to work at 50 KCUP, while the 30-06 was downloaded to 47.5 KCUP in WWII to work in the M1 Garand. And that little tid-bit came from a tool and die maker who worked at the Winchester Western ammo factory all during the war. He claimed that the really hot ammo that Western made was for Chiang Kai Scheck's export M98 mausers, fighting in China. That 7.92 x 57 ammo went out by the carload at 52.9 KCUP. And last but not least, niether the 8x06 or 8mm AI, can be picked up and loaded into a creaky 1888 commision rifle, or one of the j bores with the .318 bbls.. But an improperly marked 8x06 rifle can easily take a standard 8mm mauser cartridge, with unfavorable results, for the unwary shooter, which is the other nail in the coffin for the 8x06, paired against the 8mm x 57 AI.
so far ive shot loads up to 50 grains of adi 2208 and this load is not one id like to use alot of its HOT. so i figure ill be working around 48.5 to 49.5 of 2208 behind the 195 hornady. no idea as to velocity as havnt got a crony. just seated to factory ammo lenght. recoil seems no worse than my remington 308!!!
8X57 Mauser Ackley improved 40 degrees.
Just built one, no data yet but will post as soon as I can. Hornady is building the dies and they are way behind in custom orders. I am crimping with a pair of pliers. I used a Yugo Mauser because of its short action which is to short for full length 8mm 06 conversion as the bullet has to be seated to deep. Case {Remington} water capacity is within a grain of a standard 06 case so the results should be interesting. I call it a 8X57mm Kicker which it does with the stock I am using. Soon to be changed.
Just built one, no data yet but will post as soon as I can. Hornady is building the dies and they are way behind in custom orders. I am crimping with a pair of pliers. I used a Yugo Mauser because of its short action which is to short for full length 8mm 06 conversion as the bullet has to be seated to deep. Case {Remington} water capacity is within a grain of a standard 06 case so the results should be interesting. I call it a 8X57mm Kicker which it does with the stock I am using. Soon to be changed.
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48 Posts
I've been shooting the 8X57 AI for over 10 years now, a reworked Yugo...Great rifle and my go to rifle in most circumstances. With 150gr bullets, several loads will hit 3100 fps although in mine I lean more towards the 175-180's. I'm getting 3045fps with the 175 gr. Sierra with RE 17, Pro 2000, and 3090 with CFE. Just started working up a load for the 160 Barnes TTX that I think will be Dynamite...Will let ya all know how that works. I've been shooting 54.5 gr. of H4895 with the old 159 Gr. Norma's and it's a deadly combination but only have a few left and don't want to waste them over the Chrony. Would anyone have any of those old bullets they would be willing to part with? By the way, I've shot several elk with mine with the 175 gr. Sierra, 180 gr Barnes, and 200gr. North Forks bullets and have never recovered one. The 200 gr. NF bullets Chrno right at 2800fps. with my loads... What more could you ask? The best killing round I've ever used!
I also have a 8mm-06 Ackley, and a 8mm Durham Mag. I built this past year but I've yet to see a situation except a couple really, really long range shots that the 8mm Ackley wasn't up too.
I also have a 8mm-06 Ackley, and a 8mm Durham Mag. I built this past year but I've yet to see a situation except a couple really, really long range shots that the 8mm Ackley wasn't up too.
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