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hbonser, African hunting occurred long before legislation in countries established minimum cartridges for its big game. The 9.3x62 was the "poor man's" cartridge produced by Otto Brock in 1905, the one gun that was all purpose for game in Africa popular, with the African farmers. It is still used in some African countries today such as Zimbabwe. A short Google search will give you this information.
 

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Was the 9.3 designed around bullets that were already in existence, in the way the Whelen was designed around bullets already in existence? Was the 9.3 a brand new bullet diameter in 1905? If I recall, the 9.3 was around at least in 1900 with the introduction of the 74R. The 35 caliber bullet was already in existence for the Whelen, I would suspect the 9.3 was designed in the same way? In any case, they both make a good poor man's Magnum that regardless of where they came from, do not meet the minimum for most of Africa today.
 

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Both the 375 H & H and 93 x 74, headspace at the rear of the cartridge, ie Rimmed and belted. These cartridges were made for break open single shots. The 9.3x62 I a more modern cartridge designed for repeater bolt actions mauser style actions with staggered magazines. Rimmed cartridges work better in single shot, aka #1, T/C, etc.

my double rifles are for rimmed cartridges.
Thanks. Have only read about these. Never handled or shot one.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Both the 375 H & H and 93 x 74, headspace at the rear of the cartridge, ie Rimmed and belted. These cartridges were made for break open single shots. The 9.3x62 I a more modern cartridge designed for repeater bolt actions mauser style actions with staggered magazines. Rimmed cartridges work better in single shot, aka #1, T/C, etc.

my double rifles are for rimmed cartridges.
Actually the 9.3x74R came out around 1900, followed by the 9.3x62 in 1905. The 375 H&H was introduced in 1912 as a cartridge to be used in a magnum length bolt action rifle. The belt was put there to control headspace, because the minimal shoulder of the 375 H&H wasn't enough. There was also a 375 Flanged Nitro introduced for double rifles. It's a rimmed counterpart to the belted 375 H&H loaded to slightly lower pressures for use in double rifles.
The book "Cartridges of the World", by Frank Barnes is handy to have for all of this info.
 

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Discussion Starter #85
It's also funny how the belted cartridge became synonymous with "magnum" cartridges. In reality, only the 375 H&H and 300 H&H really needed the belts to control headspace. All the ones that came after just used a modified H&H case, but they did not (except for the 458 Win. Mag.) need the belt. They all have more than enough shoulder to headspace off of.
 

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Once the magnum case was introduced with the Holland and Holland rounds, and they were only available for use in expensive/exclusive long action (magnum action) rifles, many in the shooting public for over a century now, has wanted to be part of the club that says magnum.

Not on topic, but shows the vulnerability of the buying public, or shows the wisdom of the buying public...

The 300 Win Mag is #6 in total reloading die sales and the 7mm Rem Mag is #8 as per RCBS.. The 338 Win Mag is just out of the top 10, however is the most popular medium bore cartridge by a good margin. No WSM in sight.

Which shows on a yearly basis, more folks are going for the belted magnums than the newer belt less magnums, assuming folks are reloading for cartridges they are buying.

Playing the devils advocate, if we wanna call the belted magnums a farce and not needed, the short magnum would equate to highway robbbery and pillaging the pockets of the shooting public when the gun manufacturers were hurting for sales, as opposed to the "original" magnum movement that was in the hey-day and at least offerd ballistic advantage over traditional round in the same calibers.

In the 300 WSM, load data falls over 100 fps short of the 300 Win Mag with 150 and 180 gr bullets, which would be using Saami specs. The Nosler data I am using also uses a 26" bbl for the WSM and 24" for the 300Win Mag.... The 300 Win Mag is rated to 62K psi vs 65K psi for the 300 WSM. Less PSI and more performance for the 300 Win Mag.

As well, that the WSM is rated faster from the factory by 10 fps with 180 gr bullets is not a relative comparison, as once again the 300 WSM is loaded to 65k psi and the 300 Win Mag to 62K psi.

Back to the 9.3, if I had not built a 35 Whelen AI, I would be looking really close at the 9.3x62.
 

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I don't know that the 9.3 is legal in Africa... 375 and bigger is the legal minimum. Not sure where the claim the 9.3 was made for Africa comes from? Given that the 9.3 is still under the Africa minimum, seems like a really mis-Informed manufacturer did that on a bad day.
Actually professional hunters and residents can use the 9.3's on anything. Guided hunters can use the 9.3 on game up to the big cats, elephants, etc. For the larger antelope species, warthogs, etc. it's a first class option.

Finn Aagard was a strong proponent of the 9.3X62, and he used it extensively for control shooting Cape Buffalo and hippos, and as a go to rifle on problem lions. His writing suggests it was actually more popular in most areas for farm and ranch use than any of the larger cartridges, including the .375.
 

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Good info, thanks for helping me out on this!

Question... With the 9.3 being legal for residents on game up to the size of elephants as the post shares, would that allow the use of a cartridge such as the Whelen, or is the line drawn at the 9.3?

Makes me wonder as to the .375 minimum if guided hunters also can use the 9.3 as I believe is being said. If residents and guided hunters can use the 9.3, is the .375 minimum being mis-stated or mis-applied?

Finn Aagard had a fondness for the 35 Whelen that helped solidify my choice of the Whelen in general and my desire to be different and chamber mine for the AI, still have an article he wrote for a "top game cartridges" type of article years ago.
 

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Makes me wonder as to the .375 minimum if guided hunters also can use the 9.3 as I believe is being said. If residents and guided hunters can use the 9.3, is the .375 minimum being mis-stated or mis-applied?
I've worked in and out of Europe for the last 20 years for a Swedish based company. The Swedes are enthusiastic travelers and hunters, and the 9.3's are a favorite to hunt with all over the world, including Africa.

The .375 minimum applies to the Big Four game species for guided hunters. The locals are expected to use common sense and skill, and the 9.3X62/64's are suitable with the right bullet as long as the trigger interface can shoot. Guided hunters can use the 9.3's if they choose, but not on the elephant, lion, or buffalo.

I suspect the laws were loose in the past, as Roy Weatherby used his .300WM on everything, and was not jailed or arrested. But that may still be the case. Or not.
 

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Every country is different.

Most country that adopted minimum, went with the 9.3. However in the 1950s, Americans had never heard of the 9.3. So gun writers just said the 375H&H is the minimum. Wrong, but close enough for government work.

You really need to check your specific regulations by country. In Zimbabwe the 9.3x62 is the minimum BUT THAT ONLY APPLIES TO PUBLIC LANDS. If you are going to hunt private ranches and concessions, then any cartridge you want can be used. I hunt leopards on an-unfenced 80 sq mile ranch, and use a 308/8x57 or the 338 mag.

Again, just check the country of your concern.

Personally, I think a 500 grain bullet is needed for lion (aka 458 win mag). I've not used my 9.3x62 on cape buffalo; preferring my 416 mag.

And today it is the big 4; almost impossible to hunt rhino (black or white) with a firearm/bullet. There are 'Green Hunts" for Rhino. you use a dart gun with a veterinarian at your side. I've seen this done but have zero desire to tranq a rhino or other critter.
 

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My 9.3X62 started life as a early Ruger Model 77 in 30-06. It was a very early round top one and with some of the early ones it was very inaccurate. Before I had it rebored the best it would shoot with its favorite handloads was 3 1/2 inch group, most factory loads were closer to 5 inch groups. I got it from someone I know who used it where it was rare to shoot over 100 yards, most of his shots were closer to 50 yards.
I had it rebored by JES reboring out in Washington state, he did a great job and now it is shooting close to 1 1/2 inch groups with factory loads. Right now I'm shooting some Remington ammo I got pretty cheap, a gun shop had ordered 10 boxes and had 8 boxes for a long time so I got a deal. Have not started to handload for it yet still making empty brass.
I have a 3X9X42 Cabelas Euro scope on for now but I might switch to a 1 1/2X5 Leupold.
 

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It was designed for German farmers in Africa in 1905 but that was to provide an effective and affordable cartridge which could be chambered in standard Mauser 98 actions as compared to the very pricey double rifles chambered to nitro express cartridges. But that was before the 375 H&H, which made it obsolete in some ways.
The 9.3x62 is very similar to 35 Whelen and only trumps it in bullet weight, meplat and slightly more powder space thanks to a shorter neck.
338 Win is a significantly more powerful cartridge and in most situations will out perform the 9.3mm. However, on dangerous game like buffalo a 9.3x62 with a 286gn bonded core bullet or solid has better penetration and initial impact. The mistake many make with the 338 is screwing up super fast loads. Guides who take people buffalo hunting in Northern Australia recommend hunters who absolutely MUST use their 338s load the heaviest bullet they can find to between 2400fps and 2500fps.
But, like the 35 Whelen, there's little game in the Americas that can't be taken by the 9.3x62. Trajectory tends to be it's limitation.
I call BS on the 338. In the real world, not ballistic tables bigger holes and more penetration Trump fps and fpe every time. If you have never shot a 9.3 at 300 yards you are just blowing smoke. I honestly can't think of a single situation where I would take 338 over a 9.3.
 

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Yeah, I know. Well, the 30-06 uses a 1-10" twist and that goes from 110gr. to 220 gr. bullets. I don't know what the SD is with a 220gr 30cal. bullet compared to a 286gr. 9.3, but it must be close. I guess that's why they went with the 1-10". We shall see at the range:D
Hawk makes a 320 grain bullet.
 
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