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Hello to all the reloaders on the forum.

I need some help and advise...

I have been reloading for a few years now, mainly for hunting purposes. I havent had the need for software like QL yet as I have always kept well below the max loads posted in reloading manuals. I have also never had the the need to push the limits off my rifles yet, untill now...

I have the opportunity to go and hunt a Cape Buffalo bull later this year in Namibia. The rifle I would like to use is my 9.3x62. Namibian law unfortunately states that the minimum rifle that may be used to hunt dangerous game must exhurt atleast 5400 joules of energy at muzzle.

From my research on this forum and other forums it is possible with Alliant RL-17, Ramshot Big Game as well as Alliant 2000-MR. Some othert powders also come close.


My main goal is to get to 5400 joules of energy, I would be happy to use any powder with a choice of the following bullets:

Swift A-Frame 300gr
Swift A-Frame 286gr
Woodleigh 320gr

It would be great if someone could run my info through QL to see what the most effective pullet/powder combination is to get to 5400 joules of energy.

Caliber: 9.3x62 CZ 550
H20 volume of cases: 75.30 gr (Norma)
Total Cartrage Lenght: 87.50 mm
Barrel lenght: 601 mm

Thx

Oelof
 

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It seems the easiest way is to work backwards---How much velocity does each bullet need to equal the energy you're looking for?
The problem is getting away from bureaucrats- They have a list of calibers and ME figures and your handloads mean nothing at all. The only factory load that qualifies is the RWS 258 grain bullet. Not a buffalo load to me!
 
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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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So, we'll "round up" to 4000 lb ft of energy to make it easier.

"A Frames/Partitions are a "no go". Only solids are recommended with a "square nose and wide meplat" so's they don't deviate from the intended path (I read a lot of Capstick) Also from member MusgraveMan, there was a " rule of thumb" for the 9.3X62 and 35 Whelen (or similar) of a minimum 280 grain bullet at a minimum of 2400 fps would indeed yield 4000 lb ft of energy.

Not knowing where you are from or what you have available for powder I can't recommend anything except get a 375 H&H :D

Again, I'm just "crunching numbers" and relating what I've been told and have read so take it for what it's worth.

RJ
 
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I can tell you from experience, a light weight Whelen shooting an original 300 gr. .049 jacket Barnes at 2450 will sling snuff on the scope lens. :eek: That was my elk load for one elk and a bear. There are more pleasant ways to abuse yourself. Bullets got lighter as I got older.
 
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Welcome,
hope to see your future posts


Don't think you will make it. Best bet would be to talk to your PH. The best bullets for cape buf is going to be in 286 gr, and you can't push that fast enough. Lighter bullets will give you more velocity and more energy (square of velocity); but you are losing big on bullet performance.

.

Two thoughts
1) Buy factory Norma 275 gr solid DG load. It gives 3666 ft pounds. As close as you can get. African countries like the 9,3. so run it past your PH it might be approved.
2) load a good solid/thick 286 and load it to book max...they are NOT going to chrono your loads.

QL is not a way to get a safe high pressure load. It can check loads, but it is just an equation, like Powley Calculator. A check at best regardless what internet says, I'd not trust my CZ 550FS to a way over book load from QL.

The A-frame is a very poor buffalo bullet. It is a version of the RWS H-mantel and the Patician; with a weak front to promote expansion and a compartmentized rear; the good thing about it it is bonded.

could be a 375 in your future.

Remember worse than missing your buffalo, is hitting it and it starts toward you where upon you PH drops it with his 458.

good luck
 

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CAUTION: This post discusses experimental load suggestions that are not published anywhere, nor have they been properly tested for safety and may exceed published pressure maximums for the cartridge(s) mentioned. Neither the writer, The Shooter's Forum, nor the staff of The Shooter's Forum assume any liability for damage or injury resulting from using this information. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE THE DESCRIBED LOADS without first working them up while watching for pressure signs. If you don't know how to do that, don't try.


Oelof,

Was the case you measured for water overflow capacity a fired case? A fired case reflects the case capacity in your chamber, and that is what determines the pressure in rifle cases. Also, the length of the case you measured the water capacity of needs to be reported with the capacity. I ask because the default case volume in QuickLOAD is 78 grains of case water overflow capacity. Usually, Quickload has smaller capacity than most commercial cases, to be conservative about pressure.

Second, I will warn you that when I make velocities match published velocity and pressure combinations, QuickLOAD tends to somewhat underestimate pressure in many instances when using default bore area. So the following information is at your own risk. You will want to reduce it at least 10% to work the loads up.

All that said, since you are seating longer than normal for the cartridge (83.6 mm), and assuming you still have about 1 mm of space for the bullet to jump to the throat (closer starts to raise pressure), QuickLOAD estimates you could just barely get to your goal:


Objective:
5400 ft-lb = 3983 ft-lbs. I popped it into Excel and got:

286-gr at 2505 ft/s or 763 m/s
300-gr at 2445 ft/s or 745 m/s
320-gr at 2368 ft/s or 722 m/s


QuickLOAD estimates ALL VERY CLOSE TO MAXIMUM 3900 BAR pressure limit according to the program; APPROACH WITH EXTREME CAUTION:

286-grain Swift A-Frame SS

Elcho 17 (a.k.a., Reloader 17): 64.0 grains (4.147 g)
Reload Swiss RS 60: 64.1 grains (4.154 g)
Reload Swiss RS 62: 67.2-grains (4.354 g) (compressed)
Somchem S365: 65.7 grains (4.192 g) (heavily compressed)
V V N550: 64.5 grains (4.238 g) (compressed)


300-grain Swift A-Frame SS

Elcho 17: 63.2 grains (4.095 g)
Reload Swiss RS 60: 61.2 grains (3.966 g)
Reload Swiss RS 62: 66.3-grains (4.296 g) (compressed)
Somchem S365: 64.9 grains (4.205 g)(heavily compressed)


320-grain Woodleigh PP

Elcho 17: 61.0 grains (3.953 g)
Reload Swiss RS 60: 61.1 grains (3.959 g)
Reload Swiss RS 62: 63.9-grains (4.141 g) (compressed)
Somchem S365: 62.7 grains (4.063 g) (heavily compressed)
 
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Discussion Starter #8
CAUTION: This post discusses experimental load suggestions that are not published anywhere, nor have they been properly tested for safety and may exceed published pressure maximums for the cartridge(s) mentioned. Neither the writer, The Shooter's Forum, nor the staff of The Shooter's Forum assume any liability for damage or injury resulting from using this information. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO DUPLICATE THE DESCRIBED LOADS without first working them up while watching for pressure signs. If you don't know how to do that, don't try.


Oelof,

Was the case you measured for water overflow capacity a fired case? A fired case reflects the case capacity in your chamber, and that is what determines the pressure in rifle cases. Also, the length of the case you measured the water capacity of needs to be reported with the capacity. I ask because the default case volume in QuickLOAD is 78 grains of case water overflow capacity. Usually, Quickload has smaller capacity than most commercial cases, to be conservative about pressure.

Second, I will warn you that when I make velocities match published velocity and pressure combinations, QuickLOAD tends to somewhat underestimate pressure in many instances when using default bore area. So the following information is at your own risk. You will want to reduce it at least 10% to work the loads up.

All that said, since you are seating longer than normal for the cartridge (83.6 mm), and assuming you still have about 1 mm of space for the bullet to jump to the throat (closer starts to raise pressure), QuickLOAD estimates you could just barely get to your goal:


Objective:
5400 ft-lb = 3983 ft-lbs. I popped it into Excel and got:

286-gr at 2505 ft/s or 763 m/s
300-gr at 2445 ft/s or 745 m/s
320-gr at 2368 ft/s or 722 m/s


QuickLOAD estimates ALL VERY CLOSE TO MAXIMUM 3900 BAR pressure limit according to the program; APPROACH WITH EXTREME CAUTION:

286-grain Swift A-Frame SS

Elcho 17 (a.k.a., Reloader 17): 64.0 grains (4.147 g)
Reload Swiss RS 60: 64.1 grains (4.154 g)
Reload Swiss RS 62: 67.2-grains (4.354 g) (compressed)
Somchem S365: 65.7 grains (4.192 g) (heavily compressed)
V V N550: 64.5 grains (4.238 g) (compressed)


300-grain Swift A-Frame SS

Elcho 17: 63.2 grains (4.095 g)
Reload Swiss RS 60: 61.2 grains (3.966 g)
Reload Swiss RS 62: 66.3-grains (4.296 g) (compressed)
Somchem S365: 64.9 grains (4.205 g)(heavily compressed)


320-grain Woodleigh PP

Elcho 17: 61.0 grains (3.953 g)
Reload Swiss RS 60: 61.1 grains (3.959 g)
Reload Swiss RS 62: 63.9-grains (4.141 g) (compressed)
Somchem S365: 62.7 grains (4.063 g) (heavily compressed)
Thanks for the informative reply.

I plan to work up to these speeds. Somchem powders are in low supply these days so I hope to find some RL-17 to test.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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I can tell you from experience, a light weight Whelen shooting an original 300 gr. .049 jacket Barnes at 2450 will sling snuff on the scope lens.
What was the powder used fit that load jack, 4895?

RJ
 

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Solid bullets are your friend when going after cape buffalo and larger game. Those animals are tough, big and dangerous. You want a gun that you can feed rounds into easily and that the fired cases don't hang up coming out.
It is a great opportunity to hunt dangerous game in Africa. Your guide will tell you what he thinks of your gun - listen to him. He wants to keep you alive so you can come back to do it again.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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I can tell you from experience, a light weight Whelen shooting an original 300 gr. .049 jacket Barnes at 2450 will sling snuff on the scope lens.
What was the powder used fit that load jack, 4895?

RJ
 

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The load was given by Dick Kroekle at CST...let's just say a full case of 4350 is all you want. I switched to 275-.049 Barnes and then 225 Barnes X and recoil is way down. O'Connor was right, there are no different degrees of 'Dead Right There'.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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The load was given by Dick Kroekle at CST...let's just say a full case of 4350 is all you want.
A "case full" as in full to the brim? Halfway up the neck? Base of the neck?

RJ
 
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I won't give the load because it's way too hot. It wouldn't fit in my LC 62 Match cases, but would fit in W-W cases (Mid '60s that meant something), but still compressed substantially.

Doc Kroekle was a known blower of primers and handloading wild man. He wrote the lesson plan for the 'Handloading and Ballistics' section of CST. It was very comprehensive and hands on. (I taught it for a year or so).
His elk rifle was a rebarreled and restocked '03 Double Heattreat that had a multiple-times repairs to the bolt face. He was good friends with Fred Barnes and they shared a passion for heavy bullets. Doc got a lot of samples to shoot and had occasional use of a 'rare at the time' chronograph.
 

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Elk Whisperer (Super Moderator)
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Well my load of H4350 in RP brass is 1/3 of the way up the neck and I can only get a 250 grain Hornady to 2380.

As with all things Barnes I've learned to take most of what any bullet/powder/factory ammo manufacturer say with "a grain of powder".

I'd believe Charlie O'Neill a hundred times before I'd believe Fred Barnes once.

Anyways, we're derailing this thread.

:D

RJ
 
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Doc Kroekle chronographed his load in his rifle (24") at just over 2400, as I remember it. Mine is 22" and I've never checked velocity, but know its too hot for a sub-8lb rifle for me to shoot off the bench, but kills things very dead.
A correction, too. I only shot one bull with that 300 gr. RN Barnes load. I shot the bear with the Barnes 275gr. along with more than a dozen elk and several deer.
 

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With the little that I know of ballistics and the plenty I know of administrators I think you'll be hard pressed to meet the ME standards with the 9.3 x 62, bearing in mind the administrator will almost certainly view the factory options with regard to ME and quite rightly so.
In the overall scheme of things I'd say cut your losses and have the rifle rechambered for a cartridge that easily fulfils the administrative requirements.
The 375 H&H has been suggested and this will tick all the boxes as will the 9.3 x 64 brennecke, which would, subject to your verification, be a simple rechambering job whereas the 375 H&H will need either a new barrel or a rebore.
Ammo for the Brennecke is reasonably freely available both in Europe and Africa and, if you must have reloads, try https://www.vihtavuori.com/ which lists it and several other 9.3 caliber rounds.
In honesty when you're investing heavily in a trip to Africa, the cost of a rechamber is peanuts and, as the round was designed to function through a mauser 98, as was the 9.3x62, there should be no problems in that area.
As always, it's your money so spend it wisely after researching thoroughly and regard many of the opinions on forums, including my own, with a large pinch of salt - until proven otherwise.
CZ is a great rifle btw.
 

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If you use the 60K PSI SAMMI limit for the 30-06 as your maximum for the 9.3x62 (most conservative given the SAMMI max for the 35 Whelen is 62K PSI) it is easy to achieve the energy levels you seek with Big Game or 2000-MR. Pressure tested (at <60K PSI) data is attached.
Here's a couple threads to peruse:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13479857/13-years-hunting-alaska-with-the-9-3x62

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14754898/using-mule-deers-rules-with-the-9-3x62

Hornady, in their No 10 manual, got over 2400 FPS with their 286 grain and 62.4 gr of 2000-MR, and that's while observing the antiquated 57K PSI CIP limit that most of the "published" data for the Nine-Three is held to.

And do a search for whatever John Barsness has written about the 9.3x62 or about hunting Cape Buffalo. Apparently using today's controlled expansion super bullets is becoming much more popular in Africa than it used to be - since, apparently, they work.

Best of luck with your load development and your hunt,
Rex
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If you use the 60K PSI SAMMI limit for the 30-06 as your maximum for the 9.3x62 (most conservative given the SAMMI max for the 35 Whelen is 62K PSI) it is easy to achieve the energy levels you seek with Big Game or 2000-MR. Pressure tested (at <60K PSI) data is attached.
Here's a couple threads to peruse:
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13479857/13-years-hunting-alaska-with-the-9-3x62

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14754898/using-mule-deers-rules-with-the-9-3x62

Hornady, in their No 10 manual, got over 2400 FPS with their 286 grain and 62.4 gr of 2000-MR, and that's while observing the antiquated 57K PSI CIP limit that most of the "published" data for the Nine-Three is held to.

And do a search for whatever John Barsness has written about the 9.3x62 or about hunting Cape Buffalo. Apparently using today's controlled expansion super bullets is becoming much more popular in Africa than it used to be - since, apparently, they work.

Best of luck with your load development and your hunt,
Rex
Thanks for the info Rex.
 
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