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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone else out there noticed that the 9.3x74mmR is very close in rim and base diameter to the .444 Marlin? The main difference seems to be that the metric case is about 3/4" longer than the Marlin.

Think of the possibilities for wildcatting on a case like this! It would be dynamite in a single shot, double or combination gun from .308" all the way up to .429". For the fun of it, I got a couple boxes of empty brass and had RCBS make me a long tapered expander that allows me to expand the case to straight dimensions. Then I necked it down using some of the dies I have lying around. Case capacity is impressive and pressures could be held down to about 45,000 PSI and still match .300 Win Mag or .338 Win Mag velocities, by my estimation.

I am still toying with the idea of having a chamber reamer made up for a .338" Improved (40deg) version of the cartridge but I have two small problems. First I don't have any real need for the chambering and second my wife just wouldn't understand! Still, I might do it anyways!
 

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7 x 74R

Kanuck,

EAA imports a Russian made 12ga/7x57R combo O/U that would perfect for a 7 X 74R. The 7x57R's rim dia of .521 is almost identical to the 9.3 x 74R's .524. Base dia of the former is .470 and .465 on the latter. Looks like that's close enough for a simple rechambering.

This O/U is available at a very reasonable price from cdnninvestments.com in 12ga/7x57R, 12ga/6.5x55 and 30-06/30-06. How about a "7.62 x 74R Improved" double?
 

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Kanuck,

about 15 years ago, I developed a line of cartridges off of the 9.3X74R case, designed specifically for the Ruger #1.

The case was necked to: 6.5mm, 270, 7mm, 30 cal., 338 and 358. That long slender case had .010 body taper and a 40 degree shoulder angle with a neck length that matched the bullet diameter....

This has proven to be a fairly popular round for the #1 as well as the TC Encore....

DAVID
 

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DAVID WHITE said:
Kanuck,

about 15 years ago, I developed a line of cartridges off of the 9.3X74R case, designed specifically for the Ruger #1.

The case was necked to: 6.5mm, 270, 7mm, 30 cal., 338 and 358. That long slender case had .010 body taper and a 40 degree shoulder angle with a neck length that matched the bullet diameter....

This has proven to be a fairly popular round for the #1 as well as the TC Encore....

DAVID
It would be great to see some of your designs. Do you have specs for performance of your creations as well? Interesting that you developed an entire line of cartridges based on the 9.3x74. It is a well balanced cartridge in it's own right, and I can see the merits of wildcatting it.

Fun stuff, looking forward to hearing more.

God Bless,
 

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9.3x74r

Marshall,

all of the cartridges I designed, based on the 9.3X74R case showed approx. a 300 fps. to a 350 fps. velocity gain over "standard" cartridges, ie., 270 Win., 280, 30-06, etc....

I used "near max" 270 Win. loads for the 270-9.3X74R for fireforming, as well as the same for the 280-9.3X74R and similar loads for the others....

I called the rounds "WHITE EXPRESS", for the appropiate calibers, ie., 270 WHITE EXPRESS, 280 WHITE EXPRESS, 308 WHITE EXPRESS, 338 WHITE EXPRESS, etc....

I chose to call them WHITE EXPRESS because my last name is White and I put the Express on there because I thought it a fitting name, being a round for Single Shot Rifles....

I have also converted two Ruger Red Label shotguns into Double Rifles and chambered them for my 338 WHITE EXPRESS and 280 WHITE EXPRESS....

These are just a few of the many Wildcat rounds that I have designed and developed over the years and "knock on wood", they have all gained favor with hunters and shooters all over the world....

I'm not the best and I'm not perfect but after 20 years of building rifles and hunting handguns and loading literally millions of rounds of ammo, I like to at least think I have learned a little something....

Always remember to give credit where credit is do. PRAY AND PRAY HARD!!!

DAVID
 

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280 White Express

Hi David,

Excellent wildcatting. I am seriously considering the Baikal 12ga/7x57R from CDNN and converting it to your 280 White Express.

A. Am I correct in assuming that a simple rechambering is all that is required?

B. Will you perform the conversion?
 

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NITRO,

1 - with a "double gun", the chamber would have to be cut by hand. Do you realize how long that would take!!!

2 - The base diameter on most 7X57 Mausers is around .012 to .015 over what the base diameter is for my cartridges. What this means is that there would be a twelve to fifteen thousandths "bulge" at the base of the cartridge. Ugly at best and exactly where the case would seperate after a few firings at worst....

I always cut my chambers on the "MINIMUM" side, even below what S.A.A.M.I. specs call for, and unless I can completely cut out all of the old chamber without being over size at the base, I would rather not do it....

Some people say that I am too picky and I may be, but the way I look at it, IF YOU CANNOT DO IT AND DO IT RIGHT, THEN LEAVE IT ALONE!!!

I apologize NITRO but this is one conversion that I am going to have to pass on....

DAVE
 

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Discussion Starter #11
David

I have a Ruger SS Red Label that I would dearly love to have a set of rifle barrels for. Please send me details on who/how much for such an undertaking.

Kanuck
 

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Kanuck,

if you have a SxS Ruger then you have the Gold Label, am I correct? I am working on a Ruger SxS now that will be chambered for my "458 Wompus Kitty" which is based on a maximized 348 Win. case....

e-mail me at: [email protected]

Send me your address and I will detail the barreling process along with the costs and options....

David
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Dave White

I have sent you an e-mail in response, but just to clear up the matter when I said "Ruger SS Red Label" I meant stainless steel rather than side by side. I guess I should have said "Ruger All Weather Red Label".

Yes, I would be very interested in how you do things. I think this action has a significant amount of potential for conversion to an Express Rifle. Any thoughts you have on its strengths and limitations regarding use with rifle cartridges would be most welcome in this forum. I would be particularly interested in anything that might be do-able to make the trigger more rifle-like.

Also, any ballistics you have for the .338 White Express would be of great interest. When I was playing with expanding the parent case to straight and necking it down again with standard .338 Win Mag dies, the case capacity was somewhat larger as I recall. Given the fact that I see this cartridge operating at somewhat lower pressure than a Winchester Magnum, I feel it should be possible to duplicate ballistics of the original Alaskan. It would make a dandy Express Rifle cartridge, and still have the option of the shotgun barrels for small game or deep woods anti-bear medicine.

Kanuck
 

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Kanuck,

I'll try to give my best description of things as we go along and if I do not make something clear, let me know....

My 458 Wompus Kitty is similar to the 450 Alaskan. The case is left full length, absolute minimum bady taper and 40 degree shoulder angle. The ballistics on this are equal to the 50,000psi. loadings of the 45/70. Just a much fatter case....

And YES, I have developed a line of cartridges off of the 348 Win. case as well, starting at 7mm and running up to the .458! The last "308 Wompus Kitty" that I did was in the Ruger SxS Gold Label that I had been working with for the last 6 months and it shot Sierra's 165gr. Boat Tail-Hollow Point Game King bullet at 3180 fps. from 20 inch barrels and 2 1/2 inches of that were muzzle brake! I had taken a bunch of 35mm pictures of this most beautiful "DOUBLE GUN" to see if I could post them on the forum and a future web site but, no thank's to wal-mart and a snot nosed kid working in the film department, all of my pictures were ruined!!! Before I forget, the left barrel was the "308 Wompus Kitty" and the right was chambered in the "458 Wompus Kitty"! Hornady's 350gr. Round Nose clocked out at 2,000 fps. and the Hornady 500gr. Round Nose clocked 1,500 fps.....

As far as the rebarreling goes and since I do not have a multi-million dollar set-up to make or produce barrels like the manufacturers do, I decided to take "the affordable" route to rebarreling and my procedures are listed below, in the easiest way I know how to explain them.

First, I start by cutting the shotgun barrels off even with the end of the forend, facing them true and perfectly square, one with the other....

Next, the inside of the barrels are reamed, polished and threaded. Two sets of threads are cut and "shouldered" so as to allow for the best possible alignment....

I use only Match Grade stainless steel barrels and like on the Ruger Side by Side, even if I do say so myself, it made a most beautiful and well balanced little rifle....

The barrels are deep fluted, starting 1/2 inch in front of where the barrels are inserted and extend to within one inch of the muzzle. For consistancy in accuracy, the barrels are turned to a fast taper, to there desired length, along with the deep flutes, which results in greatly reduced barrel flex, whip and vibrations....

There is an "adjustment block", for lack of a better word, that is attached at the muzzle that serves a duel purpose. One, is to attach a front sight if sights are to be used and second, is to allow for slight adjustments in point of impact between the two barrels. I found that through trial and error best accuracy was achieved by having "both", heavy flutes and a fast taper!

I can install a base for scope use or I can install a three leaf EXPRESS sight and have them pre set for you at 30, 60 and 90 yards! Scopes are sighted in to strike point of aim at 75 yards....

The Ruger SxS that I just finished would keep 5-shots inside an inch at 75 yards with the 308 and also keep 3-shots of the 458 inside an inch as well! The problem with having a scope on a gun like this and the calibers being so different, there was a 13 1/2 inch variation between the two at 75 yards! By using the EXPRESS sights, you could "flip the sights" and keep them both inside of 2 inches at 75 yards! With this particular "Double Rifle" going to Africa, I think that it will serve it's hunter well....

With this being my first Side by Side to convert into a rifle, I will say that it is definatly the way to go....

As far as the strength of the gun itself goes, I do not know what kinds of pressures it is able to stand. The biggest reason I went with "my" cartridges is because of the minimum body taper and therefore less backthrust against the frame! All pressure is exerted "outward", against the chamber walls....

The trigger can be filed, honed, and polished to a crisp three pounds....

I've set here at the computer as long as I can but, if I have left anything out, just ask and I'll catch up on things the next go round....

God Bless!

DAVID
 

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Discussion Starter #15
"start by cutting the shotgun barrels off "! Egad! I like my shotgun barrels! Can't you build a new monoblock with just a spring extractor as opposed to an ejector? As you say, you aren't set up for making barrels but if you have a mill (or a milling attachment for your lathe) you should be able to duplicate the locking and pivoting surfaces on a new monoblock and then drill and thread it to accept barrels turned down to 1" at the breech. You could incorporate a folding leaf and mount bases into the monoblock as well. The quarter rib on the Ruger No. 1 is a pretty good example of what I am talking about.

I don't understand why you would want leafs for 30, 60 and 90yards. Sighted in at 90yds, even the 500gr at 1,500fps would be only 1.0 and 1.4 inches high at 30 and 60 yards.

I think you have taken on a real bear of a project building a double rifle with two different cartridges. It would be hard enough getting two barrels with the same chambering to shoot to the same point of impact, let alone what you have accomplished. Nice work! I would very much like to see some photos!

As for the trigger, the problem with the Red Label trigger isn't so much the weight but rather the amount of take-up and over-travel. Actually, it isn't that bad but I have been spoiled by fairly crisp 3-4 pounders on my rifles. I am wondering if the take-up can be eliminated or reduced without danger of firing both barrels at the same time.
 

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Kanuck,

I only did what customers had asked me to do! I do not make a living at converting Ruger Shotguns to rifles. I just did it because I was given a challenge and after over a years worth of studying and contemplating, did I decide to do it. I did, it worked, customer was happy and it put a little more green in my pocket....

Just like a stainless 458 Winchester in the Browning BAR! I made three of them. One is in Colorado and belongs to an Elk Guide. One is in Canada and belongs to a Bear Guide and the third one went to an Alaskan Bear Guide. All of these guides said that they have been offered a couple thousand dollar profit over what they had paid for it, by their clients and as far as I know, none of them have been sold....

Just like rebarreling the H&R and N.E.F. single shots, by "stubbing" the barrel, you can build a bull barrel single shot that will match any of the high dollar bolt actions, ie., my 6mmX30-30 Improved will shoot 5-shot, 1/2 inch groups at 300 yards! this H&R single shot has a 1 1/4 inch stainless bull barrel, is 26 inches in length with a muzzle brake and wears a Weaver 36X Target scope. I have won several thousand $$$ with this rig and have won several local matches with this rig as well! I put it togather several years ago because someone told me it could not be done and that these guns "COULD NOT BE MADE TO SHOOT", even if it was rebarreled with a "MATCH" barrel! Well, I proved them wrong, put a little jingle in my pocket and had lots of fun, all at the same time....

DAVID
 
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