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Hello!
  A few years ago I acquired a Spanish Mauser (Oviedo 1910) in a trade.  It's a nice handling carbine (16.5 inch barrel), smooth action,  and shoots 1/2 inch groups with factory ammo (and original iron sights) from sand bags at 50 yds.  I'm certain I can do better with reloads,  but right now I'm overseas in Turkey,  and haven't had a chance to mess with it in a while.  When I get back to the States,  I want to restore it and dial in a couple of pet loads.
  My problem is lack of info on the Spanish Mausers.  Everyone loves the '98s (me too),  but the '93s seem to have been forgotten.  I understand certain strength shortcomings,  but this would be a super rifle for 30-30 type use.  I'd like some reload info within the '93s limits, especially with this short barrel. If someone could also point me toward a parts breakdown with exploded view of this carbine (there's something different in the forend and barrel band area) I would wear a smile for days on end!

Thanks....
Erich
 

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Should I assume your pet carbine is still in its original 7x57mm chambering? If so you have the makings for a super woods walking and hunting arm for most anything short of elk, moose, and the great bears up North.

As for handload data I think it wise to follow Speer's strong suggestion that appears in their Reloading Manual no. 13:

The industry working pressure for the 7mm Mauser is 46,000 cup in deference to the weaker Model 93 and 95 Mausers still in use...The following data were developed to a maximum pressure of 50,000 cup and should only be fired in modern commercial rifles...Owners of Model 93 and 95 Mausers should not exceed the starting loads.

So if we go by that sound reasoning I would suggest starting with IMR 4350. It proved to give the best accuracy without any pressure signs in a Chilean Mauser I once owned. Using Speer's criteria we would have the following as maximum charges.Start 5% below them and slowly work your way back up to these limits.

130-grain bullets: 46.0 grains
145-grain bullets: 45.0 grains
160-grain bullets: 42.0 grains
175-grain bullets: 41.0 grains

Don't think you'll be under a ballistic shortcoming by using these loads. With the proper bullets they'll cleanly kill anything for which the 7mm Mauser is suitable under 200 yards. And let's face, with the issue sights I doubt you'd want to do much shooting past that distance anyhow.

As for a parts diagram and list, check out Numrich Gun Parts Corp. They should be able to supply you with that information.



<!--EDIT|Bill Lester|April 11 2002,19:06-->
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info!  
  Sorry to omit this, but yes, it is a 7 X 57.  I already have reloading manuals from Speer, Hornady, Lyman,  and dozens of handouts and factory pamphlets,  and by the best I can recall, they all say the same thing with regard to the weaker actions.  Velocities still aren't too bad at those starting loads (looking at the books),  especially for the short barrel that I've got.  I just know that whenever I've strayed from the books in the past with other cartridges accuracy always went bad.  
  Thanks for the lead on Gun Parts,  I'll poke around there right now!

Erich
 

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Erich,

Beyond the known accuracy of 4350 in my own 7mm Mauser, I also suggest it because it will bulk-up in the case pretty well. This will help your accuracy. Using faster powders like 4064 or Reloader 15 would net smaller charges and thus more airspace in the cartridge. That makes it harder for uniform ignition to take place, which can hurt your grouping ability. In my experience best accuracy and uniform velocities are acheived when the cartridge is an almost or slightly compressed load, which is why I usually suggest the slower propellants across the board.
 

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Good Point...
   Filling the case IS easier on the chamber.  I've been terrible about powder selection,  I usually get what will work in the widest range of my firearms so I don't have one powder for one pistol/rifle.  Soooooo,  I looked at IMR 4350 in my books,  and YES!  I should work in several that I have.  It's on the top of my shopping list.

Erich     <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
 

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Interesting you should be working with the Mauser 93/95's in 7x57!  I just picked up a pair of them yesterday to embark on a project I've had on my list for about three years.  I specifically wanted that small ring 93/95 model to make a wonderfully light, inexpensive and very utilitarian pack rifle....
I'm hoping for about 5 1/2 - 6 lbs max for the gun.  It'll be a labor intensive, but relatively inexpensive project.  The one I've picked to work over is an Oviedo 1902 model that was previously customized by chainsaw, but the metal is in fine shape, headspace excellent and the bore in very good condition, but dark... lapping will cure that!

No not a gun for elk and moose (at least not by intent or design), but for woods bummin' perhaps shooting some of our high altitude mulies where veteran seven can shine.

Looking forward to revisiting a comfortable old cartridge from my earlier days (I built one of these rifles about 17 years ago.... shouldn't have let myself get talked out of it by a friend!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Erich, also have a 93, that my wifes uncle hauled back during WW2. It aint purtty, but it still shoots good. My daughter discovered it and havant seen it since, but keep getting requests for more reloads. (must be doing something right). Loading the 147 gr spitzer on top of 41 grs of IMR 4350. This gun had very little use and shoots fairly tight groups at 150 yds. Every once in a while I get a chance to shoot it , only if I promise not to shoot up to many of the reloads. Like said above, it makes a nice gun for running around the brush, and throwing in the jeep or pickup, not really gonna hurt it

Regards

Gun runner
 

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Marshall Stanton,

Your 7x57 light utility rifle project sounds like something that could be very useful for others. Please, share your plans for the conversion from the military original and results.

Thanks,
Fireplug
 

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Fireplug,

Thanks for the vote of confidence! <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://beartoothbullets.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

Actually the thought of doing an ongoing Tech Note, and just adding to it as I went along crossed my mind.... but not too seriously.

Just for my own benefit, I've already done a few photos of the two guns, their mechanical and cosmetic conditions, and the details that influenced my selection between the pair for this project.

This is going to be a low budget project, with the end result to be a somewhat handsome, but utilitarian light-weight, reliable, accurate,shooter without frills.

If folks here on the forum think it's a worthy topic for inclusion here, I'll certainly do it.... let me know!

God Bless,

Marshall
 

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Marshal,
I, too, am interested in what you're doing.  I can't imagine where you'll shave off much weight from the carbine,  there's not much there!  I like the stock as it is,  and I need to replace the barrel band.  The front sight is a little awkward to use and slow to acquire,  but sweating it off may make more of a mess than I want to fix (without bringing in unnecessary expenses).  Then again,  it may be fun,  I'd like to see what can be done!

Erich
 

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I have one of the "dangerous" rebarrelled 93/95 Mausers in 308 Winchester.

After a bit of research, I found that the Spanish actually made special lower pressure 308 Winchester NATO ammo specifically for these rifles at one time. It was loaded to about 45,000 CUP or thereabouts which puts it into the 300 Savage area.

So I avoid factory ammo and handload for this rifle with either starting or mid level 308 loads only. I like to call it my 308 Savage in deferrence to it's perfectly adequate lower pressure loads. Also makes a good bolt action cast bullet gun though I have yet to explore that area further.

So many guns and only two hands...................


Regards
 

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Contender,

I thought this was a case of American marketing. I've always been under the impression that these guns were actually 7.62 CETME, which is a virtual dead-ringer for the 7.62 NATO except for very minor case dimensions and the pressures you quoted. Yanqui importers, knowing all this, sell them as 7.62x51mm/.308 Winchester. Have you heard of all this or am I the butt of bum (pun intended) information?
 

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Bill,

You are most likely correct as that is the name of the cartridge I was trying to remember.

In all likelihood the case dimensions are one in the same and it was merely a designation for the lower pressure round manufactured for this rifle in deferrence to it's strength.

What was somewhat irresponsible was the marketing of this rifle as a "NATO" round shooter. I routinely blasted away with full up milspec ammo for a time when a gent at the range let me in on the story with these rifles and I went into it a bit further.

Ever since, I stay with the lower pressure loadings and steer clear of the high pressure stuff. Heck, it's a 1916 action anyway and it's most likely a good idea to take it easy with it. The headspace is perfect also with no evidence of any "blooped" casings.

The stuff of legends I tell ya.....................
 
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