Only shot a couple jackrabbit over the years with a 9mm. Don't remember anything remarkable about either one. However a jack shot with an ACP and 230 grain hardball is like a bag of jelly.

 

Shoot what you like. Personally I am tired of non Americans complaining about what Americans choose to shoot. It is a personal issue, if you feel confident with a 9mm by all means use it.

 

All pistol bullets tend to zip right through a jackrabbit. I've shot them with everything from .25ACP to .41 Mag and very seldom will one flop over dead, even with repeated hits. High velocity and a fragile bullets anchors (the pieces) every time. So does bird shot whether from a shotgun or snake shot in a revolver. It flattens them right out. It might seem counter-intuitive, but a .22LR HP is MUCH more effective on JRs than a hard ball pistol bullet.
They seem to have the same constitution as a 'raccoon or porcupine and unless the central nervous system is shocked hard it keeps on ticking.

 

I dont recall any running off. Maybe we hit them all and about 1/2 ran off and i just figured they were misses.'

 

I agree if you can hit with it a 45 is better. My choice would be the 9mm because I would have a better chance to hit with it. I was not complaining about what Americans shoot. My complaint still is many Americans are quite vocal on what the 9mm lacks. I hope some will read this and it helps redress the ballance a bit.
Mik

 

Jackrabbits are best shot on really cold days with no wind with high velocity HPS. The mushroom cloud of steam is a thrill every time!
PETA would call an airstrike on us if they could.

25 years ago, there was a plague of JRs in N. Nevada. I shot over a thousand in one day with four guns.

 

You're not kidding about that JBelk. And I know this is an acient thread, but I couldn't resist commenting on the rabbit infestation my wife and I witnessed back in the mid 80's.

Back in late December 1985 my wife and I were making an emergency trip from San Diego, Ca. to Idaho. As we entered into the San Bernardino mountains, which is on the Nevada border we hit a massive winter snow storm that stretched from the California Nevada border clear into Idaho, this was a deadly blizzard. Anyway, as we made our way across Nevada there were literally thousands of jack rabbits that appeared to be either standing in the middle of the highway, or possibly frozen to the ice and snow packed highway, it was a site I'd never seen before. We were hitting 10 or 15 in a row that were lined up one behind the other in the road. And even if I had wanted to there was no way to avoid hitting them. This was due to the 18 wheeler's that compacted the snow down, which made it impossible to steer out of the snow and ice packed tracks they created. By the time we reached the little town of Winnemucca I had probably hit no less than 2 or 3 hundred of them, maybe more. All I could do was watch as their ears would disappear from the front of the car with a thud.

After hours and hours of battling ice and snow we couldn't go any further due to worsening road conditions, so we got a motel in Winnemucca for the night. Next morning we got up and discovered that the intense cold had killed the car battery, so I called a tow truck to come out and jump start us. After knocking all the snow off to open the hood, and shoving around the car so we could get the doors open and so we could get out of the parking lot, we found entire rabbits jammed up in the undercarriage, blood and rabbits parts were frozen to the bumper and grill. It was quite a site, the hood and sides of the car looked like someone had sprayed them with blood, and the hub caps had red ice stars spiking off of them. When the tow truck guy got there he couldn't hardly believe what he saw either. He opened the hood only to find rabbit parts, heads, blood and fur jammed up in the engine compartment as well.

In all the years since I've never experienced anything that compared to that winter trip across Nevada.

SMOA

 

I"d like to see the calculations since they make no sense at all. Numbers just grabbed out of the air? In almost sixty years of shooting I've never seen anyone calculate how long it takes an animal that's been shot to die. I'm personally tired of people who don't shoot a lot of animals (most, but not all Europeans) telling us how to shoot things. Here in the U.S. we get a lot more opportunities to hunt and shoot than any place in Europe. Don't get me wrong, there are some very knowledgible Brits when it comes to shooting but they rarely try to preach to us about how it's done. I think the ones who know what they're talking about rather like our situation over here.

 

Spot on nsb. I do envy a lot, regarding shooting opportunities the US citizens get.
Most open rural areas where members of the public in the USA can shoot, most "Brits" could only dream of....
The regulations over here in the UK are out of control! (Even worse in Scotland) Talk about trying to eradicate all shooting hobbies or pass times!!... Most of it is pure ignorance, with your average person on the street thinking that any gun's trigger is pulled by "demons" and the "devil".
A very sore subject for me!!

 

I guided an Englishman gun writer on a ground squirrel shoot about 20 years ago. He was totally astounded and said he got ten years shooting at 'game' in three days.

It is entertaining to see theoreticians suddenly face reality. I saw a semi-famous American writer miss six shots in a row and insisted he was right and the bullet was wrong on every one of them. I had to point out to him the rocks were hit and the rock chuck was still looking at him. It's hilarious to see 'computer shooters' face real wind conditions and mirage and the biting yellowfly that becomes known to your neck just as the sear is creaking.....

Anybody that's shot a Badger or a feral house cat knows numbers in ballistics charts have NO meaning to any animal but the guy reading them. Energy, knockdown, frontal area, expansion, and velocity means very little to some animals and others lay right down and die. An eighteen pound rockchuck sheds parts and doesn't wiggle when hit in the middle with a K-Hornet. An eighteen pound feral cat took two of them and had to be tracked (by dog) to where he finally died. (He was 'armored' with an inch of solid cockleburrs in thick hair, too.)
A mountain lion will die immediately from a .22mag in the lungs. A feral house cat will have enough fight left to tear up dogs with the same shot.

 

For Jbeck

A jackrabbit is a creature we don't see in the UK. I accept they can get up and run away even with a well placed shot, it is however difficult for us Brits to imagine. They must be rabbits on steroids.

Before buying his HMR my son in law shot rabbits with a 22 air rifle of about 11FPE, they run away then.
Mik

 

Armadillos are another critter you can waste a lot of ammo on. Shoot them once and quit - they will eventually crawl into one of their holes and self-dispose.

Shooting them more than once just wastes ammo and doesn't change the outcome very much at all.....

 

There are two jackrabbits in the US and several variations that could be sub-species. Locally, in the Great Basin/Basin and Range, high deserts there are White-tail Jacks and Black-tailed Jacks. The White-tails go all white in the winter and the BTs stay gray with white trim. Black-tails are prone to population explosions that are truly epic in proportions. Motorcyclist have been killed on roads made deep in slime from thousands being run over.

A BT Jack is not even two inches thick through the shoulders and rib cage and offer very little resistance to bullets. In the winter-time in years of excess, the JRs gather within walking distance of stack yards where they can eat several tons of hay a night. One ton bales are eaten into mushrooms before falling over and being consumed. In some places, barrier wire is strung and 'rabbit drives' are held and the rabbits are clubbed.

I've had a very wet spring and summer with excess grass growth with pack-rats and jack rabbits in good supply. I can easily see a dozen in the mile and a half to the county road and it seems to make no difference how many I shoot. There's still a dozen available.

True about the Armadillos, and their soft-shell version the 'possum.

 

Nsb

I certainly like your situation as you put it. In my twenties I could hit what we call the pimpernell at 25yds with the club Martini Henry 22 every time. it is a pink 22 dot on a penny size black background. The point was to shoot out the pimpernell in 5 rounds and leave no pink. Many at the club could do it (not me) their targets looked like they had been shot once.
I will share my calculations but it will take an hour or two to present them. Let me say the formula I used is available on the net. The formula is spresented for a 90Kg man It has a constant in it of 60 for game of 90Kg+ For game under 90kg I devide by game weight making a Jackrabbit about 0.05. If I did not do that the rabbit would last nearly as long as a man
mik

 

I certainly like your situation as you put it. In my twenties I could hit what we call the pimpernell at 25yds with the club Martini Henry 22 every time. it is a pink 22 dot on a penny size black background. The point was to shoot out the pimpernell in 5 rounds and leave no pink. Many at the club could do it (not me) their targets looked like they had been shot once.
I will share my calculations but it will take an hour or two to present them. Let me say the formula I used is available on the net. The formula is spresented for a 90Kg man It has a constant in it of 60 for game of 90Kg+ For game under 90kg I devide by game weight making a Jackrabbit about 0.05. If I did not do that the rabbit would last nearly as long as a man
mik

You don't really need to publish it for me. I think the others who answered you have expressed what most of us already know......it all depends where you hit the animal in order to see it run off or die pretty quickly. The formulas go out the window when the shot is fired. It's a big difference when the trigger is pulled and the bullet hits the brain, heart/lungs, or gut. Formulas are meaningless at that point. Bullet placement and they type of bullet for the game being hunted are important. If you hit the vitals they'll die somewhat quickly depending which "vitals" you hit. Hit the gut, leg, hind quarters, etc and you may never find the animal. I've been hunting for almost sixty years now and I've shot literally thousands of different animals ranging from size of rabbits, squirrels, woodchucks (lots of them), and an awful lot of deer. My experience tells me that it's where you hit them that determines how quickly they expire.

 

Calculations go out the window with a change in animal. Otherwise a chimpmunk falling out of a hawk's nest would die on impact (80 ft. Cornell University, this year). The chimpmunk landed on a parking curb but ran off.

Shoot a rattlesnake through the heart and lungs and see how long he last in a condition 'well' enough to kill you!!

 

A spine hit puts them down but through the ribs just makes 'passing gear' a little faster.

Ten years ago, I lived in a very remote canyon 24 miles of two track road from the nearest neighbor. My 'phone booth' was a place two miles from home where I could see the top of a distant mountain with a cell tower on it. In the winter-time, I kept that two miles open to 4x4 traffic but the ruts in the snow got so deep my truck would follow them automatically and let me shoot JRs with pistols and shotguns and a rifle nearly every day. With sun behind and low in the winter sky, a .38 Spec. Wadcutter can be easily seen on its way to the rabbit. BELIEVE me when I say, through the ribs and they run. They'll fall over, kick a bit and then get traction sometimes, but they're 'expending energy while dead'.

I've shot more with a K-Hornet than all other combined and even the rib shots lets enough air out and in to anchor them on the spot. The .35 Welen and .375 H&H will throw hair in the air, but the rabbit will usually wander some before giving it up.

I served on a Coroner's Jury in a police shooting in 1973. The first five .38 specials should have made a sane man stop charging but didn't, even two through the lungs. The one in the head stopped him. It's the same with some animals and some are 'crazy on PCP' when born. Leopard, Badger, house cats and Wolverine comes to mind.

 

...I calculated how quickly a rabbit would drop from blood loss alone at 1.4sec...

This is the silliest thing I have read in a long time. What is the rate of blood loss? At what volume of lost blood will the animal pass out? All totally unknown. "Expanded" theory is even worse than the theory itself. Either the OP is having fun with us, or he has no understanding of how animals behave when shot. Let him be, he is happy in his simple little world....


.

 

The formula is called the Minimum Wound Formula. It is used to estimate how long an animal can continue action after being wounded, with the inccapacitation caused by blood loss alone.

Step 1 Find Minimum Wound Area needed to down the game in 10 seconds.
MWA =Body weight/15 + 60
= 90kg/15 + 60 = 66 ans in square centimeters divide by 6.45 = 10.23 square ins.
Possible wound depth = 9 -12 ins choose 9.

Step 2 Find actual Wound Area. 9mm unexpanded and expanded 1.7 cal.
WA = Pi * D * 9ins = 10.04 sq ins
WA = Pi * .355 * 1.7 * 9 = 17.06

Step 3 Find Time
T = 10 * 10.23/17.06 = 10.2 sec
T = 10 * 10.23/17.06 = 6 sec

I worked out the 45ACP expanded hydroshoc from the document and got 3.5 sec.:
Mik
Ps If I'm preaching anything it is not how to shoot, it is that the 9mm is better than its reputation in America.

 

"I worked out the 45ACP expanded hydroshoc from the document and got 3.5 sec.:"

Yet, about 1983, a man that broke into the Colorado Merchandise Mart Gunshow was hit five times by five .45 ACP Hydoshocks and was out of the hospital in three weeks.
The formula is for one variable in an event that has dozens of variables and the one calculated is not the most important of them.
Shoot more and calculate less for more knowledge, would be my suggestion.

There is no rimfire that has enough of what it takes to put a fox DOWN, unless a central nervous system hit, but they will certainly kill him....eventually.

 

Well, the first problem is measuring blood loss. How fast does an animal bleed out? I don't know any way to get accurate measurements.

Second problem is correlating blood loss, if you could measure it, with incapacitation time. It doesn't take but shooting two deer through the lungs with a rifle, with one of them falling over stone dead and the other running 100, 150, 200 yards with a body cavity full of blood, to conclude that there simply is no correlation whatsoever that is the least bit useful.

Add in adrenaline/drugs/hormones and it all really goes out the window.

Sorry to burst your bubble but a lot of this sort of thing is armchair theory that doesn't stand up to very much real world experience. At least not to my experience. others may have different observations.....

 

CD I'm sorry you find what I have written silly. I am trying to model reality with mathematics. Nobody said Ienstien was silly, probably because few could understand his theoreys Seriously though I will be the first to admit my numbers can't be too accurate because if the variables involved.
mik

 

Unless a lethal shot is made to the nervous system or running gear, any animal will normally travel a distance before, as Mike says, it bleed out. Never tried rabbits with a handgun - always with a shotgun and all hit were DRT. Maybe legs still kicking, but anchored to the spot. Same with a "possum at 30 ft with a .375 Mag 125 gr HP - he just toppled over and dies on the spot. Racoons and armadillos all expired immediately with head shots with 22 WMR's.

 

I can't count the jackrabbits I shwacked with my Nylon 11 and Single Six. They must not have known a 22lr wouldn't kill them.

RJ

 

When I still lived in California or Oregon I managed to kill a few thousand jackrabbits, mostly Black-tails, with .22 LR solid points. Never had a problem with any of them dying. Are you sure those lead absorbing Jack are really hares and not extraterrestrial visitors?

 

22LR truncated cone hollow point hyper velocity is the most common projectile, they work well, my personal preferred method is a Speer 130grn hp in the 30-06, they work VERY! WELL!

 

I dont believe theres any reliable way to predict what any animal will do or how long they'll live after getting shot. We have enough examples of police officers shooting people numerous times with little immediate effect. One was 22 rounds of 40 cal hollow point loads, another was about a dozen hits with 45 auto and hollow point loads before the officer made a head shot and ended it. Another instance a guy with a shotgun was shot through the heart, he ran back up the stairs, down the hall and barricaded himself in a room and negotiated surrender. No guarantees what any particular load or person will do.

I've shot jack rabbits with a variety of things. RN bullets werent very effective at times, including 44 spl, 45 auto and 45 Colt. I've had them run off with body hits from those loads. I also hit a jack through the ribs with a Colt AR-15 with 55 gr FMJ M-193 loads. It was laying on its side when I walked up, held the rifle under my arm while reloading the magazine, and the jack jumped up and ran off while I gawked at it. At other times theyd be sort of crunchy after a body with with those loads. 223 soft points never disappointed in effect. I did shoot one pack rat 4 times through the body with RN 9mm loads before it dropped off the log wall of a garage. HP loads work much better in general, or Keith type or SWC bullets in revolver loads.

Shooting a few marmots, a 22 LR hollow point usually stopped them fairly well. I shot several with 45 Colt SWC loads and had them run a ways or get away in a hole. 30-30 seemed to work pretty well. Jacks and marmots are both a bit tougher animals than some other small critters. Cottontail rabbits dont hold up real well to some loads that only make holes in jacks, like 223 55 gr soft points.

 

"And when thou visits destruction on those who come to scourge thee thy number shall be 45, and 45 is the breadth of that which shall deliver them to the flames that are the home to the wicked."

 

mikmarandola---
Just to throw another monkey wrench in the switchbox of blood loss formulas, How much blood does a mammal have? Does it make a difference if the mammal doesn't drink water?