I have recently purchased a Para Ordinance 9MM 1911 and am having trouble with some of the loaded rounds not seating fully in the chamber causing the gun not to go into battery. All the measurements are within spec. I've tried light crimp and heavy crimp, the light crimp seems to work best. I'm loading on a Dillon 550, 5gr. Unique behind a 124 gr. Rainier bullet Fed. primers and mixed cases. Dillon told me to increase the belling, I did that but It didn't seem to help??? I like the pistol, but if it won't function reliably it's no good to me. Factory ammo works fine.
9MM rounds not seating in chamber, help
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Welcome to the forum. Rules are to join in and have fun and play nicely with the rest of us kids.
Something is different. The first question is what shape is that bullet and what COL are you seating to? More blunt shapes often have to be seated deeper or the bullet will jam in the throat of the barrel. You can mark the bullet with Magic Marker and try sticking it in to see if marks from the rifling lands appear on the bullet?
Another common issue is failure to remove the belling of the case mouth properly. Some cases, particularly Remington (R-P headstamp), can be too springy to size properly. You should be able to tell by checking diameters with your caliper. Measure the diameter of a commercial round at the case mouth and down a tenth of an inch or so. Then do that with your round to see if it is too wide?
If none of the above reveals the answer, buy a Lee Factory Crimp die and use it in place of the Dillon. It has a carbide ring that forces the outside dimensions to be within spec. The crimp itself will still be a taper crimp, like the Dillon, though not as smoothly polished.
Something is different. The first question is what shape is that bullet and what COL are you seating to? More blunt shapes often have to be seated deeper or the bullet will jam in the throat of the barrel. You can mark the bullet with Magic Marker and try sticking it in to see if marks from the rifling lands appear on the bullet?
Another common issue is failure to remove the belling of the case mouth properly. Some cases, particularly Remington (R-P headstamp), can be too springy to size properly. You should be able to tell by checking diameters with your caliper. Measure the diameter of a commercial round at the case mouth and down a tenth of an inch or so. Then do that with your round to see if it is too wide?
If none of the above reveals the answer, buy a Lee Factory Crimp die and use it in place of the Dillon. It has a carbide ring that forces the outside dimensions to be within spec. The crimp itself will still be a taper crimp, like the Dillon, though not as smoothly polished.
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Take the barrel out and use it a a gauge. The round should drop in to the barrel hood. If it sticks up its too long. I also recommend the Lee Factory Crimp die. It will straighten out a lot of problems.
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An important technique
As mentioned, disassembly your gun so you can use the barrel as a gauge.
Round won't drop in barrel:
insufficient sizing, belling of case mouth not removed, bullet not seated deep enough, wrong diameter bullet (should be more than obvious when you try to seat the bullet), or (almost impossible with straightwall pistol rounds) case itself is too long.
Always make your first reload a dummy round (no powder and no primer). Resize and drop in barrel. Should go in with nice "clunk."
After you seat the bullet, try to crimp just enough that the mouth of the case enters the barrel. You can mark the bullet and case to determine where the hang-up is (it will wipe off some of the marker).
As mentioned, disassembly your gun so you can use the barrel as a gauge.
Round won't drop in barrel:
insufficient sizing, belling of case mouth not removed, bullet not seated deep enough, wrong diameter bullet (should be more than obvious when you try to seat the bullet), or (almost impossible with straightwall pistol rounds) case itself is too long.
Always make your first reload a dummy round (no powder and no primer). Resize and drop in barrel. Should go in with nice "clunk."
After you seat the bullet, try to crimp just enough that the mouth of the case enters the barrel. You can mark the bullet and case to determine where the hang-up is (it will wipe off some of the marker).
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The suggestion to use your barrel as a cartridge gauge is a good one. If it won't chamber in your barrel, it can't be fired in your gun. Better to find out which cartridges won't chamber before it's a crisis situation.
I have a 9mm cartridge gauge from Midway which I use religiously right after resizing my empty cases. I have found that a fired case can expand in the area adjoining the head making the case unsuitable for reloading as a carbide sizer die cannot size that far down the casewall to the head. Perhaps these cases were fired in oversized chambers. Cases such as these get dropped off at my local range to be scrapped.
Possibly a steel die may be an answer for these expanded cases especially if the area around the die opening has a very small radius. Otherwise, Magma Engineering, Queen Creek, AZ has a special cartridge sizer that roll sizes the case right down to the head area.
On Mondays at my local range, many empty once-fired 9mm cases are found lying on the ground by weekend shooters who don't reload. I have literally picked up thousands of these cases over the years. They are reloaded and fired by my wife at the range and left to be salvaged. Excluded from reloading are those cases which must have been fired in oversized chambers as they will no longer resize to chamber in my cartridge gauge.
I have a 9mm cartridge gauge from Midway which I use religiously right after resizing my empty cases. I have found that a fired case can expand in the area adjoining the head making the case unsuitable for reloading as a carbide sizer die cannot size that far down the casewall to the head. Perhaps these cases were fired in oversized chambers. Cases such as these get dropped off at my local range to be scrapped.
Possibly a steel die may be an answer for these expanded cases especially if the area around the die opening has a very small radius. Otherwise, Magma Engineering, Queen Creek, AZ has a special cartridge sizer that roll sizes the case right down to the head area.
On Mondays at my local range, many empty once-fired 9mm cases are found lying on the ground by weekend shooters who don't reload. I have literally picked up thousands of these cases over the years. They are reloaded and fired by my wife at the range and left to be salvaged. Excluded from reloading are those cases which must have been fired in oversized chambers as they will no longer resize to chamber in my cartridge gauge.
also are you using roll crimp or taper crimp die. roll crimp is what usually comes as part of your seating die. i had a similar issue with a 45. had to back off the crimp portion of seat die and use a separate taper crimp only die. i had at one time a taper crimp seat die for a 45 that still would not work as one operation(seat and crimp). sometimes if you seat bullets then go back and back out seater plug and readjust die you can run shell through just the crimp. couple options. probably not the gun especially if it operates with factory ammo
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I use a Lee factory crimp die for .45 acp which is a taper, but it really smooths down the bullet bulge in the case. I'd suspect that the brass is bulging slightly from the bullet seating process. I was having this issue some when loading some flat base jacketed FTX bullets. I now use the factory crimp die every time and have no chambering issues from this. Good luck. 
As an aside, it did decrease my group size somewhat also.
As an aside, it did decrease my group size somewhat also.9mm cases bulge from compressing too much powder, bullets seating at an angle, or what ever.
I want them to drop into the chamber and fall out, not get wedged in there, which can cause a pressure spike.
So I resize the loaded ammo.
The carbide ring in a Lee Factory crimp pistol die is a larger inside diameter than the carbide ring in a sizing die. So the Lee Factory crimp pistol die does less to the cartridge, but it always seems to be enough.
Sometimes I cut chambers with a boring bar or a .001" increment straight fluted reamer. If I were making a 9mm benchrest rifle, that is what I would do. The rifle would be married to the die that resizes the loaded ammo. I would want less than .001" clearance around the case mouth head spaced cartridge. I have done this in 45acp, but 9mm would be much the same.
I want them to drop into the chamber and fall out, not get wedged in there, which can cause a pressure spike.
So I resize the loaded ammo.
The carbide ring in a Lee Factory crimp pistol die is a larger inside diameter than the carbide ring in a sizing die. So the Lee Factory crimp pistol die does less to the cartridge, but it always seems to be enough.
Sometimes I cut chambers with a boring bar or a .001" increment straight fluted reamer. If I were making a 9mm benchrest rifle, that is what I would do. The rifle would be married to the die that resizes the loaded ammo. I would want less than .001" clearance around the case mouth head spaced cartridge. I have done this in 45acp, but 9mm would be much the same.
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I would caution that while enlarging a chamber that way is fine for feed ease, if you are still headspacing on the case mouth instead of the bullet, it raises the minimum case diameter you can crimp the mouth down to by the change in diameter of the chamber. I would expect lead bullet accuracy to suffer if the rounds are not headspacing on the bullet and especially if they are headspacing on the extractor hook. All the tilting that makes that inaccurate with lead will be exaggerated in a wider chamber. The brass, ejecting from the chamber at a wider diameter will also be worked more by the sizing dies, so I would expect it to last for fewer reloadings before it starts to split. That is, unless the load is so light it expands the brass very little. In that instance, I would expect a bit more soot on the cases near the mouth, but don't see any harm in that.
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I load .38 Spl., .44 Spl., .40 S&W, .45 ACP and 9mm on a Dillon XL-650. The only caliber I have trouble with is the 9mm. Everything else works fine with boring regularity.
The 9mm problems come in two versions. First, if the crimp die is set too tight and I am using plated bullets, I get a little ring swaged on the bullet just forward of the case mouth. This looks like a very small SWC shoulder. It can cause the cartridge to fail to completely enter the chamber and jam the weapon. This does not occur with milspec FMJ bullets because their jackets are thicker and hard enough to resist the tendency to swage that ring on them.
Second, a certain percentage of the loaded round have a bulge or swell on them near the head of the case, just forward of the case web. This causes a hard jam when the round attempts to enter the chamber. This bulge could be the result of bullets not being straight when seated, or possibly because the brass does not enter the sizing die far enough. I use RCBS dies in my Dillon and the sizing die is quite short and has to be scewed down so far that it is almost impossible to use the lock ring on the die.
I use Dillon dies for the other calibers and am going to get a set in 9mm to see if it eliminates the problem. That 9mm case is short and tapered and apparently has a Teutonic temper when you try to reload it.
Another possible cause could be if the shell plate lock screw loosens and allows the shell plate to wobble, then the case might not fully enter the sizing die (and could possibly enter the seater a bit crooked).
To prevent problems, I follow the advice above and use my barrel as a cartridge gauge. It takes some time to do, but it's not a big problem if you do it while watching TV. If a cartridge doesn't easily drop in the chamber with a "thunk" or if it doesn't fall out freely, I do not box it up or load it into a magazine. Those that enter the chamber fully but are a bit "sticky" go in the "doubtful" pile...I shoot them up single shot, chambering them by hand, to practice quick target acquisition firing one shot at a time. If the rounds give more trouble than that, or refuse to enter the chamber at all, they go in the "reject" pile, to be dealt with creatively at a later date. I plan to get a Lee FCD to try to rehabilitate them...otherwise I will break them down at some point.
98% of the loaded rounds check out fine, but those 2% can be a real problem if you don't check your ammo.
Like I said, the other calibers work fine, but the 9mm can be a bit "interesting". It is worth a bit of extra effort to make sure you don't have one bad round in a box of 50 that can give you a headache when you try to fire it.
The 9mm problems come in two versions. First, if the crimp die is set too tight and I am using plated bullets, I get a little ring swaged on the bullet just forward of the case mouth. This looks like a very small SWC shoulder. It can cause the cartridge to fail to completely enter the chamber and jam the weapon. This does not occur with milspec FMJ bullets because their jackets are thicker and hard enough to resist the tendency to swage that ring on them.
Second, a certain percentage of the loaded round have a bulge or swell on them near the head of the case, just forward of the case web. This causes a hard jam when the round attempts to enter the chamber. This bulge could be the result of bullets not being straight when seated, or possibly because the brass does not enter the sizing die far enough. I use RCBS dies in my Dillon and the sizing die is quite short and has to be scewed down so far that it is almost impossible to use the lock ring on the die.
I use Dillon dies for the other calibers and am going to get a set in 9mm to see if it eliminates the problem. That 9mm case is short and tapered and apparently has a Teutonic temper when you try to reload it.
Another possible cause could be if the shell plate lock screw loosens and allows the shell plate to wobble, then the case might not fully enter the sizing die (and could possibly enter the seater a bit crooked).
To prevent problems, I follow the advice above and use my barrel as a cartridge gauge. It takes some time to do, but it's not a big problem if you do it while watching TV. If a cartridge doesn't easily drop in the chamber with a "thunk" or if it doesn't fall out freely, I do not box it up or load it into a magazine. Those that enter the chamber fully but are a bit "sticky" go in the "doubtful" pile...I shoot them up single shot, chambering them by hand, to practice quick target acquisition firing one shot at a time. If the rounds give more trouble than that, or refuse to enter the chamber at all, they go in the "reject" pile, to be dealt with creatively at a later date. I plan to get a Lee FCD to try to rehabilitate them...otherwise I will break them down at some point.
98% of the loaded rounds check out fine, but those 2% can be a real problem if you don't check your ammo.
Like I said, the other calibers work fine, but the 9mm can be a bit "interesting". It is worth a bit of extra effort to make sure you don't have one bad round in a box of 50 that can give you a headache when you try to fire it.
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Have not experienced the swaged ring at the casemouth due to the sole use of milspec FMJ bullets but I can see that happening with plated bullets. IME, the case neck of the 9 mm is quite stout and does a fine job of holding the bullet through tension. Crimping just enough to take the bell out of the casemouth has always worked well in the wife's SIG P228.
Many 9 mm handguns are chambered for reliable functioning and not match performance so expect generous dimensions in the chambers along with bulged cases. Most of the resized brass that fail to chamber in my Midway 9 mm cartridge gauge has been due to the case bulge just ahead of the case web. While I also use a carbide RCBS resizing die, I don't believe the die reaches close enough to the case head to iron out that bulge. Even maladjusting the die (not recommended by RCBS) to where it touches the shell holder does not do much good on removing that bulge.
Most of my 9 mm brass has been salvaged from my local range so I have no idea what guns they were shot in. Fortunately, a lot of this brass is not bulged leaving me the chore of separating the good from the bad. My reloading process is to first check all of my brass in the cartridge gauge following resizing. Your barrel chamber will also suffice although I believe the cartridge gauge has tighter dimensions. By checking for chambering first, I eliminate all cases that do not chamber saving myself the chore of breaking down out-of-spec cartridges and reloading them later. It's been my experience that when a case will not chamber in the cartridge guage, it hangs up just above the web. At that point, the casemouth is not even touching the gauge walls indicating the casemouth has room to move even if the case doesn't.
Most of the posts in this thread center on crimping the 9 mm. I seem to find more problems with bulged cases.
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If you seat and crimp in separate steps, you will not shave material off the bullets.
Brass thickness can vary quite a bit. If a newly resized case will go in the chamber, but a case with a bullet seated in it will not, then the brass is just too thick. Find thinner brass or bullets that don't seat as deeply.
If newly resized brass will not chamber, then the dies are too loose, or you picked up some range brass fired in a greatly oversized chamber. Or both. Or possibly you just have a very tight chamber in your gun.
Check the fit of the cases / ammo after each step in the process, and it will become evident where the issue is. Good luck.
Brass thickness can vary quite a bit. If a newly resized case will go in the chamber, but a case with a bullet seated in it will not, then the brass is just too thick. Find thinner brass or bullets that don't seat as deeply.
If newly resized brass will not chamber, then the dies are too loose, or you picked up some range brass fired in a greatly oversized chamber. Or both. Or possibly you just have a very tight chamber in your gun.
Check the fit of the cases / ammo after each step in the process, and it will become evident where the issue is. Good luck.
I was not trying to post about modifying existing chambers, but about cutting new chambers smaller than SAAMI minimum registered diameter.
In 45acp benchrest, I cut a .469" chamber with a straight fluted .469" reamer. That is married to a Lee carbide sizing die that has a .467" diameter, and 45acp brass springs back to .469" after sizing.
The range of 45acp per SAAMI toleranced drawings is from .4744" to .4784".
For benchrest, I make the chamber .0054" smaller than minimum.
And that makes a 45acp rifle that is accurate at 100 yards.
For 9mm benchrest rifle, which I have not done, but would likely be a .387" at the rear of the chamber, and the compound on the lathe would have to be dialed in so that the boring bar cut a taper of ~ [.387" dia -.379"dia]/.748" depth.
The diameters and headpace would be smallest possible clearance on the population of brass to be used and the sizer die to be used.
The SAAMI registered dimensions of .3913" to .3953" dia at rear would be .0043" larger than what I might advocate for a 9x19mm benchrest rifle.
The headspace would be .006" shorter than SAAMI.
What does it all mean?
My method of chambering pistol cartridges in rifles is not optimized to feed a variety of ammo reliably in a semi auto pistol, but but to shoot accurately in a dedicated range rifle with dedicated brass and dedicated die.
I have shoved the cases into the carbide die further than a shell holder would permit.
I have had to pound the case heads out of the carbide die.
I don't recommend this, but I have been doing it for 8 years, with the brass I prepared.
A .001" or .002" anomaly in the rear of the chamber to accept factory case webs would be preferable.
I have had to resize the load ammo.
I reamed with a throater that matched the 230 gr FMJ bullet.
I reamed the throat until the 1.275" round just chambered.
This sounds like a big hassle, but a 20 pound 45acp rifle that shoots a group at 100 yards is fun to shoot.
I have had to pound the case heads out of the carbide die.
I don't recommend this, but I have been doing it for 8 years, with the brass I prepared.
A .001" or .002" anomaly in the rear of the chamber to accept factory case webs would be preferable.
I have had to resize the load ammo.
I reamed with a throater that matched the 230 gr FMJ bullet.
I reamed the throat until the 1.275" round just chambered.
This sounds like a big hassle, but a 20 pound 45acp rifle that shoots a group at 100 yards is fun to shoot.
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Good idea, or if you have a friend with a lathe, it should be a simple job to make a die that cases can be pushed through out of drill rod or similar. I'd be concerned about breaking the carbide ring on an ordinary die, perhaps that concern is unfounded.
Just a thought.....
Just a thought.....
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I've loaded more 9mm than I could ever count, never used any crimp on any projectile, i have to assume you have run factory 9mm of any brand through the gun ?
The only thing the round could hang on or jam in the breech sounds like the projectile, feed one of your rounds and close it up hard and don't shoot it eject it and inspect the projectile for land marking on the lead.
Have had several 9mm guns and used many different shape and size bullets and have not even seen this in any gun.
Have shot a .45 Para Ord 1911 and it was one of the better ones, unless the barrel has missed a machining process, and looking at the two 9mm I have now both have a "slight" taper in the first 1/4" of the lands, even so others do not and the lands height is constant all the way through the barrel.
If it won't cycle factory ammo i'd be returning it, but if any factory round drops in level i'd be changing projectiles before doing anything.
All my 9mm and 45's will simply drop into their respective barrels and come to a dull sounding clunk where each headspaces on the projectile side which is left out approx .015" max, essentially sealing the projectile into the chamber, but each will also drop out if turned upside down.
Very odd, I dont even own a specific crimp die for 9mm, could never ever see a need for one, sure in magnum revolvers a very gentle pressure might be the norm, but could hardly be called a crimp, only making sure they have the same cartridge diameter at mouth and near bullet base to repair any remaining case bell.
some pics perhaps ?
The only thing the round could hang on or jam in the breech sounds like the projectile, feed one of your rounds and close it up hard and don't shoot it eject it and inspect the projectile for land marking on the lead.
Have had several 9mm guns and used many different shape and size bullets and have not even seen this in any gun.
Have shot a .45 Para Ord 1911 and it was one of the better ones, unless the barrel has missed a machining process, and looking at the two 9mm I have now both have a "slight" taper in the first 1/4" of the lands, even so others do not and the lands height is constant all the way through the barrel.
If it won't cycle factory ammo i'd be returning it, but if any factory round drops in level i'd be changing projectiles before doing anything.
All my 9mm and 45's will simply drop into their respective barrels and come to a dull sounding clunk where each headspaces on the projectile side which is left out approx .015" max, essentially sealing the projectile into the chamber, but each will also drop out if turned upside down.
Very odd, I dont even own a specific crimp die for 9mm, could never ever see a need for one, sure in magnum revolvers a very gentle pressure might be the norm, but could hardly be called a crimp, only making sure they have the same cartridge diameter at mouth and near bullet base to repair any remaining case bell.
some pics perhaps ?
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